Okay, MGTOW, I get it now. If this is the option, I’d pass too

 

Isabel Chalmers has written a truly compelling, heart wrenching piece at Thought Catalogue about how her slutty days are behind her and she’s ready to offer her vagina to a Nice Guy now.  That’s so sweet Isabel.  Let’s see what you have to offer:

 

Dear Nice Guy,

 

Note the lack of plural.  Isabel is not talking to Nice Guys as a group – she is addressing that one special Nice Guy to which she is obviously entitled.

 

I don’t know you yet but I’m so ready to date you. Seriously, I am. For a long time, I dated bad boys. Yes, I was that girl you blame for always coming in last. I guess I dated bad boys because, somehow, I liked their unavailability, sexy sideways glances, and late-night calls. I fed off the chase and mystery they provided me. I saw them as a challenge that I always happily accepted. Let me tell you, I’ve dated so many jerks throughout the years. A lot of times, I ended up being disappointed with how it ended with them, and wondered why I always had such blind optimism about these guys I clearly knew were jerks to begin with. But to be honest, I don’t regret any of it now.

 

You dated men you knew were unavailable, and the juxtaposition of “sexy” and “late night calls” strongly suggests you were a booty call for a whole bunch of them. You fed off the fact that they made you feel desirable – they chased you. Your word for these men is “jerks”. A lot of times you ended up disappointed?  A lot of times?  You’re kidding, right?

 

Let’s stop for a second here, Isabel, and think about what makes these guys “jerks”.  They function to pander to your inflated sense of sexual worth, respond exactly as if your sole value lies in providing sexual services, you prefer them over decent men who are clearly around and yet somehow it’s the guys who are “jerks”?

 

You claim to have repeatedly experienced “blind optimism” about these men, but what exactly were you optimistic about?  You deliberately chose men who viewed you strictly in terms of late night booty calls, and you were hoping that would proceed to what?  Marriage?  A long term relationship? That you would turn your Bad Boy into a Nice Guy?  Be his saviour?  His Florence Nightengale? Why not just pick one of the Nice Guys in the first place?

 

Because then it wouldn’t be all about you?

 

Just a theory.

 

I learned a lot from each and every one of those bad boys. I learned something from every un-answered text, from every “I’m just not looking for a relationship” talk, and from every lame excuse as to why he just couldn’t make to my house party until after 1 am. I guess I never let the jerks get to me. I realized it was never me; it was always them. I was born with an abundance of self-confidence. Maybe that’s why I was never too bothered by each guy who was a jerk to me. Maybe it was because I was smart enough to realize I never actually wanted to end up with a jerk. It was always you I wanted, Nice Guy.

 

Eight sentences, ten uses of “I”.  Hmmm.  Looks like my theory might be on to something. Oh, but good for you, realizing those jerks were the perfect receptacles for your decisions and your responsibility.  Hey, it couldn’t possibly be you that was the problem, right?  Nope, nopity, nope, nope. It was always them.

 

If you have so much self-confidence, honey, then why do you need to be continuously reassured of the fact that you are an object of desire?  I think you are confusing self-confident with narcissistic. I’m glad you weren’t bothered by each guy who was a jerk to you (and just how many are we talking about anyways?).  I wonder when it will occur to you that those jerks gave you exactly what you wanted from them.  When someone gives you what you ask for, how is that being a jerk?

 

With all that being said, I’m ready to date a Nice Guy.

 

 

Good for you.  Why would a Nice Guy want to date you?  What do you have to offer now that you’ve ridden every bad boy in town?

 

I’ve learned all the lessons I need to learn from bad boys. I now have the ability to distinguish between when to give up on a relationship and when to fight harder.

 

 

Uh, and how did you learn this, when all the bad boys rejected you as serious girlfriend material?

 

I know all the excuses and lies and can see when it’s right to say a big ‘f*ck you’ or an ‘okay, I’ll let you make it up to me.’

 

 

I’ll let you make it up to me? 

laughing-fem-emoticon

 

Oh honey, you are a peach!

 

I know what it’s like get all dressed up for a night out only to sit in your room watching Netflix, crying and staring at your phone because the person you had plans with never showed.

 

 

Is this the abundance of self-confidence you were talking about earlier?  Because that is just what self-confident girls do – cry and stare at their phones.

 

And that a “got too drunk sorry” text is not a sufficient excuse or apology.

 

 

But why would such a text surprise you?  You’ve chosen men who have an extremely limited view of your value, which you have explicitly encouraged by responding to the idea of being “chased”.  You want “mystery” – I think the mystery here is that you are shocked that sometimes men prefer cold beer over the stand-by pump and dump.  Yeah, that’s a blow to the ego, ain’t it?

 

I know all these things. My mom always said that the problem with people who end up unhappy is that they don’t know how to walk away from something that has already served its purpose.

 

 

Charming.  They’ve gone from bad boys to jerks to things.  I think your Mom is wrong, by the way.  People end up unhappy because they do not understand a fundamental truth about human beings:  we are happiest when we make others happy.  Of course, your Mom trashed her marriage when you were just kids and then remarried and now you live in a giant jumble of stepmoms and stepdads and stepkids and halfbrothers and assorted relatives that come and go along with the divorce decrees.  Not surprising you would see others as simple tools to learn you something new.

 

Well, I can see now that bad boys have served all the purpose they possibly could in my life and that it’s time for me to learn a new lesson. I want to learn from you, Nice Guy.

 

That’s nice.  You want to learn.  What exactly?  And what do you have to offer in exchange for this new learning you’re gonna acquire from Nice Guy?  And what happens when you’re done learning?  Is the Nice Guy just another thing for you to discard?

 

Why in the hell would any man sign up for that?

 

It’s time for me to learn what its like to have someone to fall back on when I feel weak.

 

 

Do you know how to offer that same strength in return? If your happiness has to do with discarding whatever has served its purpose, why should any Nice Guy trust that you are going to be there for him when the time comes?

 

It’s time for me to understand what its like to open up to someone without the fear that I’ll be emotionally shamed or that it will scare them away.

 

Do you know how to offer the same support in return?  Again, if your happiness is a revolving set of men who serve a purpose and then get tossed to the curb, why should any Nice Guy believe you will never emotionally shame him or run away?

 

It’s time for me to understand why people write love songs or tear up at the end of the notebook. I want to know what it’s like to be desired for more than my body, for someone to look at me with passionate eyes, slowly but surely falling in love with my mind, body and soul.

 

Aaaaand here we have it.  The unvarnished truth.  You want to be desired now for more than just your body.  That’s not enough. You now want to be desired body, mind and soul.  You are the star of the whole universe!  Every atom of you is precious!  You’re the specialest snowflake that ever snowflaked!

 

Ugh.  Seriously?  That’s what you think distinguishes bad boys from Nice Guys?  Bad boys chase your body, Nice Guys chase the whole package?

 

Here’s the thing about adult relationships, Isabel.  No one chases anyone else.  Mature relationships are not about you feeling your special feelings. They are about giving.

 

I’ll let you process that for a moment.

 

Your Nice Guy will give to you, absolutely.  That’s what makes him a Nice Guy.  But you are sadly mistaken if you think you just get to take, take, take until Nice Guy has served his purpose.

 

I want to know what it’s like to have someone who will always show up, who will always make time for me and who will always respect me. I want to know what it’s like to be able to count on someone, and know that even though love is never safe, I will be safely hurt by them. Mostly, I know I can learn all these things from you, Nice Guy.

 

And what will you offer in exchange?  Can you be counted on?  Can you be trusted never to hurt him? Will you always make time and always be respectful?  There is nothing in your letter, Isabel, that suggests you have the faintest inkling that there might be some requirements on your part to interest a Nice Guy.

 

I don’t want anyone thinking I hate bad boys. I don’t hate them; I’m just done with them. I have to thank bad boys for a lot actually. Bad boys have taught me how to depend on myself. How to pick up my broken pieces. They’ve allowed me to secure the perfect break-up remedy. Booze, friends, rebounds, cry, workout, acceptance, find new bad boy, repeat.

 

You’re done with them.  Discarded.  Tossed aside.  Ready for the next victim.  Gosh, prepare for men to line up around the block for the chance to be your next casualty. And it sounds like there have been rather a number of causalities in the past.  Always a charming quality in any woman.

 

I understand myself so much better because of these bad boys. I know what I’m like at my worst. But I’m ready to know what I’m like at my best.

 

Well, kudos to you for admitting you have no clue what you look like “at your best”.  Sadly, Isabel, you also have no clue what you at your best is supposed to look like.  You just want that Nice Guy to throw caution to the wind and hope that your “best” turns out to be a decent human being?  That’s rather a lot to ask.

 

I promise you this, Nice Guy: I don’t know you yet, but I will be a nice girl to you in return. I will show you what you’re like at you’re best. I will treat you with the respect you deserve and will always answer your call when you need me. I will show you what all those bitchy girls couldn’t.

 

Yep, we’re back to Square One:  you’re gonna show that Nice Guy what he’s like at his best.  You’re gonna save him!  Here’s the thing, cupcake, Nice Guys spend most of their lives “at their best”.  That’s what makes them Nice Guys.  He doesn’t need you to show him jack shit.  He doesn’t need you to save him from those bitchy girls (and recall that you were one of those bitchy girls).

 

He doesn’t need you for anything at all.

 

If you want a Nice Guy, you will have to make him want you.  He doesn’t need you and never will.  But if you want to be wanted, you’ll need to cultivate some qualities that will make his already nice life better.  Here’s a short list:

Loyalty

Steadfastness

Good humour

Generosity

Intelligence

Selflessness

 

You see, Isabel, Nice Guys have those qualities in abundance.  But why should they give them away?  Those are qualities that, when reciprocated, create beautiful, long-lasting relationships in which both partners are happier and more content than they were before the relationship.

 

So, I guess all there is left to say is… I’m ready whenever you are.

 

Don’t hold your breath.

 

Lots of love,

 

JB

 

 

 

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  • http://gravatar.com/dolf37 dolf (a.k.a. Anders Ericsson)

    You nailed it, JB!
    I used to say – in a bit of a more limited context, that of sex – that I don’t understand the selfish pursuit of a climax, the joy of six is not in getting an orgasm, the joy in sex lies in giving one. (And in that context I usually also refer to something I believe Stephen King had in one of his books, but I have been unable to find again, paraphrased as it’s cited out of memory: “We’re not intimate for the purpose of sex, we have sex for the sake of intimacy”‘)
    And I think the absolutely biggest high you can get in life is the one you get from knowing that you have, in the literal sense of it, saved the life of another.

  • Zelcorpion

    She is supposedly 21 – meaning she went through dozens of Alphas and Dark Triad guys pretty early in life. She is already an Alpha Widow and will pine for the passionate Alpha man all her life. The few positive Alphas will not be interested in her as a LTR or God-forbid a wife – many PUAs/Naturals are excellent judges of the female character. She will not be able to fool them.

    Even if she suppresses her true nature she will likely dump him soon enough or given sufficiently higher Sexual Market Value in the terms of money, status or looks she might stick around for a while, but frankly I doubt it.

    BTW – I have not doubt that she will find her Beta Nice Guy – the demographics and growing Fatocalypse clearly favor the non-fat female in the Western world.

  • http://gravatar.com/tarzanwannabe TarzanWannaBe

    I thought I’d read this while eating lunch. (Big mistake.)

    Love is nothing if not adoration, which is nothing if not reciprocated.

  • acethepug

    Ouch. That was a nasty (but well deserved) takedown.

    I have a question — is this a generational thing? The idea of being selfish as Isabel is above? Is this simply the end-result of modern feminism? I never dated much, and am in another really long dry spell, but I don’t recall seeing (or overhearing) a lot of people like Isabel, who were (or seem to be) completely self-fixated.

    I mean, I do not read any self-awareness at all from her, that she even realizes it.

    I probably err on the other side, willing to blame myself for anything and everything, which I suspect doesn’t make me easy to get along with, either.

    Is it better (assuming one cannot find a happy medium) to be too self-aware, or not enough?

    Sorry I cannot add more, but I really do like what you had to “say” to Isabel. I hope she can take it to heart and find real, mutual happiness.

    Thanks for posting!

    • feeriker

      I have a question — is this a generational thing? The idea of being selfish as Isabel is above?

      To the extent that the selfish, solipsistic narcissism is as overt as it is, yes, it is generational. Millennials like Isabel (the females in particular), are the most damaged generation in living memory.

  • Ferrum Itzal

    I’d say that this is typical for any reasonably attractive women under 50 in my area – extremely self-involved and everything is somehow about them.

    What I don’t understand about women, in general, is this complete lack of logical thought. Every “bad boy” she was with treated her like shit, but she still kept going after them and expecting a different result. That’s the very definition of insanity, yet we see it all the time.

    This is a classic example of why I suggest guys simply stop dating entirely. If you need to get laid, buy a hooker. It’s far cheaper and better for you in the long run.

    • Jim

      “What I don’t understand about women, in general, is this complete lack of logical thought.”

      That’s because almost all of them are complete slaves to their emotions. They need a firm male hand to lead them. Are their exceptions? Yes of course, blah, blah, blah. Most of them don’t “think” they “react”. They live in the moment completely. That’s just reality.

  • Jason Wexler

    I hadn’t heard of Thought Catalog before reading this, so I followed the link to the article and then link clicked to the FAQ/About page where I found this interesting gem:

    If all thinking is relevant, does that mean the writing on Harper’s and the writing on Thought Catalog are equal?
    “All thinking is relevant” doesn’t imply that all thinking is “good” or “high-quality.”

    I am not sure which is a better response to that, to disagree that relevance does imply a degree of quality or “value”, or to argue that quality is more important than relevance. Clearly Miss Chalmers is a product of the everyone gets a ribbon generation, and has found a forum that continues to encourage that ethic by not valuing quality or “value”

    On another note this may come off as bitter to which I apologize, but I don’t believe her, regardless of all the things wrong with what she wrote that JB so wonderfully pointed out, I am not inclined to think that she will be any better then any other woman would have been. Keep in mind I am gay but the “I am finally ready for a relationship and not sex” theme is universal, and as such in my experience she is going to be looking for a “Nice Guy” who looks like a “Bad Boy”, I am willing to bet real money that she is going to reject most of the nice guys who approach her because they didn’t read her idiotic letter, because they aren’t studs. The irony is what she is looking for is a door mat not a “nice guy” and many of those “nice guys” she rejects for not being studs will be exactly the door mat she is looking for.

    • http://notboutthing.blogspot.com Goober

      Don’t conflate relevance with quality.

      If someone spouts low-quality claptrap, that’s relevant because it tells you the level of that person’s thought process.

      All thinking is relevant. The trick is this:

      Relevant to what?

      Because sometimes it literally is only relevant in that it reveals that the thinker in question is a drooling moron – news which is very, very relevant.

      • Jason Wexler

        Are you saying I should go with the second interpretation i.e. that quality is more important than relevance, or are you suggesting a third option?

        Had Thought Catalog not printed this essay for JB to respond to I would never have come across it or the ideas of Miss Chalmers. Her low quality thinking would have been irrelevant to me as I will never encounter her again.

        • http://notboutthing.blogspot.com Goober

          I don’t think you’re getting my point.

          You now know that Miss Chalmers is an idiot, right?

          Therefore, her thinking was not irrelevant to you, because it taught you something – that she is an idiot.

          • https://www.facebook.com/jason.wexler.54 Jason Wexler

            I understood your point, I was merely stating I’d rather not know her or of her, if all I know of her is that she is an idiot. I am frustrated that Thought Catalog’s inane policy to denigrate quality has caused me to be introduced to someone whom I dislike, ignorance is bliss.

  • http://notboutthing.blogspot.com Goober

    “I shunned you, laughed in your face when you propositioned me, held you in contempt my entire life because you weren’t “good enough” for me, and screwed men who treated me like shit over and over and over again while you watched me do it. I’ve made a lifelong string of horrible choices. I’m probably an emotional and psychological soup sandwich now. But I’m ready for you now. I’m ready for you to come lick my boots for a bit, until I’m done with you. You’ve waited your turn in line for long enough. It’s your turn, Nice guy! Aren’t you so excited that I’ve finally stooped to allowing you into my good graces?

    Nice guy?…

    Nice guy?

    Where ARE you? Where have all the good men gone? I can’t find my soulmate! I’m going to die alone and lonely and with nothing to show for my life except a long line of dicks in my past!

    Why are men so shitty? Why didn’t the Nice Guy wait for me? Maybe there isn’t such a thing as a Nice Guy? Maybe ALL MEN SUCK! Bastards. They should be honored to have the chance to be with a woman like me. After all, I have so many things to offer, like…

    …uhhh…

    Like…

    …let’s see. I have a vagina! That’s it!”

    No line on Earth makes me more angry than the line “where have all the good men gone?” They were there all along, you selfish, solipsistic bitch. You were just too self-absorbed to see them, and now all the “good men” have gone off and found themselves a “good woman” and you’re late the party.

    Not fair? Tough shit. You made your choices as a sentient, self-aware adult human being. Live with them and stop bitching and whining and blaming it on everyone else.

    • Ferrum Itzal

      Very well said!

  • http://ar10308.wordpress.com ar10308

    The author of “Dear Girls Who Are (Finally) Ready To Date Nice Guys: We Don’t Want You Anymore” is getting tons of shaming in the comments.

    Typical Feminazis.

    • http://www.southernmanblog.com Southern Man

      Just checked it out and there are no comments. Did they turn them off?

      • http://ar10308.wordpress.com ar10308
        • Jason Wexler

          I think he meant that Miss Chalmers article has no comments, which if I am correct about, means he didn’t see the disclaimer that the comments are probably being moderated by requiring one to be logged into their Thought Catalog account in order to leave one.

          • http://ar10308.wordpress.com ar10308

            I thought that was possible as well. That’s why I posted the link to the article I was talking about, to clear up any confusion.

  • gswann

    Weighing in with a comment from my link to this on Facebook:

    > the nice-guy is every bit as guilty during his time of chasing after these self-destructive women

    Absolutely right. I take up both side of the issue in a-week-ago-Sunday’s church service, then further elaborate the story in my hectorings about art last week.

    http://selfadoration.com/?p=5525

    I love what you do, JB, but all of this stops tomorrow if men take back their responsibility to lead human families.

    • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

      That’s really hard to do when the law won’t back that responsibility. As it stands, with no fault divorce, men can accept 10000% responsibility and it won’t matter one little bit to the judge.

      • gswann

        A man who is actually leading his family has no fear of betrayal. It’s the guys who have checked out who say, “Wuh happened?!” I understand your argument, but you and MRA/MGTOW and all of feminism are simply reactions to the abdication of Western men on their responsibility to lead their families. A man in charge is all she is looking for.

        Here’s just that one idea: ‘The Runaway Minivan: Families fail when fathers won’t lead.’

        http://selfadoration.com/the-runaway-minivan-families-fail-when-fathers-wont-lead/5412

        Come reason with me. I know how to fix both of these problems, plus many others.

        • Jim

          “A man who is actually leading his family has no fear of betrayal.”

          LOL! Yes. They’re sinless little creatures who would NEVER consider betraying a man who was doing what he is supposed to. What kind of fantasy land do you live in pal?

          Reason with you? With someone who once again is going to blame it all on the man? She’s just an innocent little cupcake who is perfect in all thy ways.

          Mangina to the HILT.

          • gswann

            Do you find that this kind of display behavior is effective in persuading people? It doesn’t work on me.

            To the guys who have had the guts to watch The Runaway Minivan, if I didn’t describe your divorce, you know someone who is living through that horror right now. Pass the link along to that guy. His kids will thank you for it someday.

          • feeriker

            Stereotypical churchian manginism (lemme guess: you’re an “evangelical” pastor or “worship leader,” right?)

            I hope you’re blogging this nonsense somewhere. The more readily identifiable repositories of this counter-biblical crap there are, the more negative examples of bluepill orthodoxy I can cite as evidence.

        • http://theasdgamerblog.wordpress.com theasdgamer

          There are two kinds of people in church–women and sinners. It’s always a man’s fault if women seem to sin. So, man up and lead your family right and women won’t seem to sin.

          I think that pretty much sums up your position. And it’s a bunch of unbiblical shit.

        • Ferrum Itzal

          That couldn’t be more wrong.

          Men didn’t leave- they were kicked out. Men didn’t abdicate their responsibilities in any way, shape or form. And that’s part of the historical record.

          How are you supposed to lead her if you’re not allowed to discipline her for wrongful actions?

    • Anonymous age 72

      @Greg Swann
      >>but all of this stops tomorrow if men take back their responsibility to lead human families.

      Non-believers, please forgive the interruption while a certain Christian heretic gets a well-deserved kick in the privates.

      Young man, I was probably reading the Bible a long time before you were born. The whole Bible, not just the part recommended by your heresy support group.

      I first became aware of this heresy in 1984. I was supplying counseling, including suicide counseling, to divorced fathers. A Christian man called me, rather upset. He had discovered his wife was committing adultery, and went to his pastor. Who screamed insults at him, telling him it was HIS fault. If he had been a good husband, she could not have sinned.

      I was stunned. Was it possible I had missed something in the many years I had been reading the Bible?

      I got a paperback Bible, and went through page by page, line by line, looking for anything at all that referred to marriage; men; woman; divorce, even close. I noted every such verse in the back pages, then later went through line by line. In case of doubt, I had other translations, because one common heretic cop-out is, “You are using the wrong translation.”

      Result: Nothing. Nothing which says a husband or any other person is responsible when a woman sins. It does say no one is righteous, not even one. It does not say no man is righteous but all women are righteous.

      Of course, it does talk a lot about harlots, heh, heh.

      In the last 30 years, this heresy has dominated “Christian” Churches in the USA, which has prompted the name Churchianity instead of Christianity, because none of this has anything to do with the Bible.

      The heresy you participate in says that effective male leadership is self-initiating, IF YOU ARE A REAL MAN LIKE ME, and effective male leadership initiates effective female submission. Right?

      That is not what the Bible says, alas. To those who actually read the Bible, it says effective male leadership is initiated by effective female submission. The only commandment to men is to LOVE their wives. No where does it command men to LEAD their wives, though you think it does because your heresy support group is the biggest support group in modern times.

      For example, God, not Adam, was Eve’s spiritual leader and teacher in Eden. Check it out. Yet, Eve sinned. I assume you interpret that to mean it was God’s fault Eve sinned? Bad God! Bad, bad God!??

      There are three ‘contentious’ verses in the Bible. It is better to (live on a roof) (live in the desert) than live with a contentious woman. And, he who can control a contentious woman can control the wind. There is no instruction how to lead a contentious woman. That is because nothing a man can do, short of Sharia decapitation, will control a contentious woman.

      Yet, ‘men’ like you swagger around, chest puffed up, insulting other good men because they can’t control a contentious woman? Shame on you.

      • gswann

        Feel better? I’m an atheist. None of what I am saying has been said by anyone before, ever. You could have found that out in the time you spent yelling at me from your prejudices. Are you getting what you really want out of the time you’re spending alive? Who is better as the result of this rain dance?

  • http://antimism.wordpress.com Jeremy

    Are we sure the original article isn’t some form of satire?

    • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

      Doesn’t look like it. The commenters seem to share her thoughts.

      • http://antimism.wordpress.com Jeremy

        So, when are we leaving for Mars?

        • lyudmil

          I was thinking the same thing, how do these people envision sharing the world with everyone else, especially with all those boring people who plan for the future and even dare to think once in a while…

        • http://gravatar.com/dekimski Kimski

          Oh, please, let it be soon.

    • Jason Wexler

      That seems to be the default assumption of both sides about claims they don’t like or understand. I went to the article discussed by some else in this comment section about “Dear Girls Who Are (Finally) Ready To Date Nice Guys: We Don’t Want You Anymore” wherein I found many woman commenting that this had to be satire, and the site then recommended an article called “18 Signs of Female Privilege”, where woman were baffledly commenting that it had to be satire.

    • feeriker

      Someone over at AVfM mentioned Poe’s Law in action. I think they’re right.

  • Omega Man

    At first I thought this was a joke, but it seems Miss Isabel is quite serious.

    The sad part of this is that Miss Isabel will most likely find her shy and sensitive nice guy. She was, however, acclimitized or habituated to bad boys and will no idea of how to treat a decent man. Of course any problems in the relationship will be his fault alone, while she remains blameless.

    If the nice guy is lucky, she will very quickly tire of him and ditch him for the next victim. If he’s unlucky and actually marries the wench, then divorce-rape is a near certainty. She will exit the marriage with a lifetime of alimony, his house, half his stuff and anything else the corrupt Family Court system will deem to be hers due the terrible nature of the suffering she had to endure. Either that or she will end up weighing 300 lbs and his misery is then compounded for life.

    Men everywhere need to be warned to run for their lives, lest they get destroyed by such a beast.

  • The Rigorist

    It’s that ending, “I will be a nice girl to you in return”, that lets us know what happens next.

    That “Nice Guy” is never going to get the hot loving those Bad Boys got – not ever. She’s a Nice Girl now and Nice Girls don’t do those kinds of things, and Real Nice Guys don’t want those kinds of things, like sex in the kitchen, or in the morning, or at lunch … .

    Isn’t that the gift that keeps on not-giving?

    • lyudmil

      “I’m looking for a meal ticket”, at least she would get points for being honest.

    • Spaniard

      Let’s face it: “nice girl” and “nice guy” sucks.

      • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

        In this context, Spaniard, I think “nice” is a synonym for “generous”. And not generous with money. More like open-hearted – generous with affection, respect, companionship, conversation.

        Nice simply means you care deeply about your partner’s well-being as well as your own. If one of those things is missing you become either a doormat or selfish.

        • Spaniard

          Got it.

  • FuzzieWuzzie

    JB, I am glad that you wrote this takedown. It carries more wweight coming from an older and wiser woman.In a traditional sense, it should be up to women to police their own.
    The only comforting thing in the whole article is Isabels youth. She didn’t wait until she turned thirty. Could it be that the tenets of sex positive feminism are starting to crack?
    One can only hope.

  • Spaniard

    I always loved bad girls. So I would not date the “reformed slut” at all. I want the slut at her best.

    Isabel do not change, please!

    I remember Lolita when she was an already married woman. So boring!

  • Jim

    “You’ve chosen men who have an extremely limited view of your value….”

    What value? She proved her value is limited to the hole between her legs. And even that has little value at this point thanks to her own actions. Who wants to settle down with a narcissistic bitch like her?

    • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

      I’d call that a limited view of her value.

      • Jim

        She has no value. She proved it.

        • Jim

          You know? I think I see why you said that now. A fuck up on my part. lol.

          What I was trying to say is that she devalued herself to the point where her value dropped to zero. IOW, she did it to herself.

          • https://www.facebook.com/jason.wexler.54 Jason Wexler

            Could she reclaim any “value” in your estimation though? I tend to be a fan of redemption, and while it was certainly ham-handed Miss Chalmers is at least trying to redeem herself, with some work she may get there.

  • Spaniard

    I am sorry for spoiling the labeling party but I am afraid that in Europe things does not work this way: “slut”, “nice guy”, “bad boy”, “good girl”, “wife material”, “hubby material”, “alpha”, “beta”, “winner”, “loser”… that all is pretty American. Is kind of a extension of all that “high school culture” typically American (I loved movies such “Meatballs” I have to say, in the 80s) but I really cannot fit it into European high school culture.
    European women who are ready to get marry do not have the need to “repeant” for being carouselers. The European female have been always a mix of bad girl/good girl (probably the mix of Christian and Pagan roots we have in this continent) European men asume this naturally. No drama. Even in heavy Catholic countries such Spain, Ireland, Poland or Italy.
    Most European men are a mix, too, of good hubby and “john” (indeed in Spain) And there is no culture of “loser” of “winner” like in USA. Being a “loser” of “winner” is something that is way beyond the USA criteria ($). Probably the Greek roots (philosophy) or maybe because people feel more racially grounded. I mean white people. Like black people feel more racially grounded in Africa.
    What is really happening in Europe (and indeed in Spain) is family courts biased against men. That is true.

    • weambulance

      Please, tell me more about what it’s like to be an American. You sophisticated Europeans are always so insightful, and I am simply blown away when you deign to grace us with your wisdom about my culture.

      • Spaniard

        Do not get me wrong. There are hundreds of things I love and admire from American culture. Otherwise I would not be writing in an American blog.
        I do not know much of your country (just NYC) but the audiovisual production in USA is overwhelming. And it arrives overwhemingly to Europe.
        And any European can take his/her own conclusions about certain issues:

        *Americans are out of their original ground (except Native Americans) and I guess that it maybe creates kind of territorial alienation. Like used to happens to Jews in the Diaspora.

        *Due to that, there is a strong culture based in money as main criteria of success and happiness. It seems the abstraction “money” is a substitute of the material reality of “ground”. Some people used to say this about the Jewish people before they recovered their original ground in 1948.

        *There are studies in the American Manosphere (by American authors) about this, and how it affects to the cultural perception of what an “alpha male” is. Not the same in USA that in Sacndinavia, for instance. You can read this in this article: “The Swedish paradox”. MGTOW forums.

  • http://comslave.wordpress.com comslave

    The “BIOHAZARD” label on her panties sort of scares me away.

  • http://notboutthing.blogspot.com Goober

    You know, another thing that I wonder constantly:

    Were the “bad guys” she was dating really “bad guys?” Or is she labeling them “bad guys” because they wouldn’t kowtow to her shit and told her to go fly a kite when she started being all “I am woman, hear me roar!”???

    They left her, so they obviously had to be bad guys, right? I mean, what guy in her right mind would leave a woman who’s default to relationship strife is “allowing” a man to “make it up to her?” The problem wasn’t her, right, guys?

    Right?

    I’ve dispensed a piece of sage advice to more than one person, at great personal risk to myself, and it goes a little something like this:

    “If everybody is treating you like you’re a piece of shit, then maybe you ARE a piece of shit. Perhaps the problem lies with you, and not with everyone else?”

    If every guy you’ve ever dated left you and won’t return your phone calls, maybe the problem is not with every guy you’ve ever dated, but rather with you?

    I know that this would take a bit more self-reflection, introspection, and self-awareness than Isabel probably has. But I’d urge her to at least try to consider this. And for God’s sake, kid, for once in your life, just try being nice. It’s literally that simple. Just be fucking NICE. Recognize that other people are sentient individuals, too, with their own needs and desires, and just try to respect that.

    Hell, CATER to it for a while, just to get a feel for how good selflessness actually feels.

  • Spaniard

    Women always bitch about ex´s.
    Probably that “bad boys” were very nice, clean, sober, tidy Christian men who treated like a lady.

  • El Greco

    The comments on the Thought Catalog for the rebuttal article are horrendous. It’s all, “He’s not nice because he was expecting something, anyway.”
    “He’s not nice because he wanted a reward for his behavior.”
    “He’s not nice because he still stewed about this date for however long.”
    “He’s not nice because he’s judging her for her looks and past, how shallow and materialistic.”
    “He’s not nice because he was too boring for her to not take out her phone on the date.”
    “He’s not nice because he dared to not deal with her shit.”

    Well, not that last one. Not in actual text anyway. Fuck. I know when I tell my friends that I think marriage is a crock (two proposing this weekend), and that I’m gonna be a lifelong bachelor, they’re gonna fire this shit right back at me.

    “Well, you’re no catch yourself.”
    “Yeah, but they’re good providers.”
    “You’re saying that you actually chose to stay a virgin this long?!”
    “Wow, you aren’t being disposable correctly, huh.”

    Here’s to hoping I come up with a big enough burn by then.

    • https://www.facebook.com/jason.wexler.54 Jason Wexler

      To quote Falstaff “Valor is the better part of discretion.” Living with an engaged couple and holding a dim view of both marriage and their chances of success (not really her fault or his), I have found smiling politely and letting them be happy has been the easier more useful path. You may be wise to smile and toast your friends and let it go, rather than try to come up with a burn in response.

    • Spaniard

      Greco, have you ever been in Toledo? (not Toledo, Ohio)

      • El Greco

        I was there for a while, and then left sometime in April, a long, long time ago.

        Do I remind you of someone?

        • Spaniard

          No, just the nickname matches with Toledo.

  • http://comprarcurtidas.com comprar curtidas

    Muito bom !

  • Mark M

    Do you understand why it seems like so guys are so angry or apathetic about women nowadays? We put up with these kinds of girls in reality all the time. We do not encounter many of the so called ‘good girls’ who don’t live their lives like this.

    • http://twitter.com/Gabriel_King182 Gabriel King (@Gabriel_King182)

      There are no unicorns.

  • http://twitter.com/Gabriel_King182 Gabriel King (@Gabriel_King182)

    JB, you have no Idea how right you are. I’ve even heard about boys in high school going MGTOW because of female actions & behavior like this. Women don’t understand that there’s a consequence to the AFBB lifestyle, wasting your prime years of fertility and attractiveness carousel riding with bad boys. These women aren’t giving men their best, and the men are reciprocating in kind. Please notice that the man up chants aren’t coming from women in their twenties, but women in their thirties and beyond.

  • http://dudewheresmyfreedom.wordpress.com Dude Where’s My Freedom?

    Because nothing appeals to “nice guys” like playing into stereotypes and just assuming that they’re all lonely and pathetic nerds who have sat around all these years watching Star Wars in their basements and anxiously awaiting the day when this beautiful and unique snowflake would FINALLY realize she’s wasting her time with the jocks and give the geeks some attention. Like a gender-flipped Taylor Swift song.

    This chick is in for a soul-crushing disappointment when she comes to the realization that the line for having an emotional commitment with a shallow and self-obsessed child is MUCH shorter than the line to fuck her and not call back always was.

    Sorry honey, but the “nice guys” are either already married to nice girls, or completely disinterested in putting up with the condescending attitude of a former frat-rat who feels like slumming it up a bit.

    • http://notboutthing.blogspot.com Goober

      Fucking brilliant. Well said.

  • Luke

    The “whole package” to which the nice guy was initially attracted, way back when the chick referenced in the OP was still young, is GONE. First, imagine a Ferrari that 15 years ago was new and in perfect condition. Now, fast-forward the 15 years, 280,000 miles later, much of it at over 80 mph, not all of it on paved roads, a number of missed oil changes, original transmission fluid/brake fluid/radiator fluid, driven on many a road salted for snow… Not exactly worth full price now.

    The chick in question back in her teens still had her hymen and full ability to bond to a man, her pre-STD fertility still stretched ahead of her (instead of being chronologically chewed up, even if she’d been truly celibate), no wrinkles, few scars, pink vs. brown nips, not close to beginning balding (as women often do when older), whiter teeth that aren’t receding… Did I mention no debt, no (likely low-IQ/Learning Disabled/half-breed/Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) castoff b&stards, no huge piles of accumulated junk, no ill-trained constantly-shedding cats or other pointless pets — yeah, the “Before” and “After” on this chick are likely very, very different from a man’s POV.

    Apt cartoon about this:

    http://www.funtastic-web.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/image-76.jpg

    He should just progress in his profession and finances, and see if any of the young unused ones are available. Going overseas should definitely be considered, as should a vasectomy (with sperm frozen and NOT telling anyone about it).

    • https://www.facebook.com/soleofsoul Michael Panichella

      Awesome. LOL.

  • Spaniard

    Why no one presume that this Nice Guy Isabel is craving for, probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row?

    • Luke

      Well, Spaniard, there are multiple very good reasons that “no one presume that this Nice Guy Isabel is craving for, probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row”.

      1) He has had the discipline to focus most of his time on his education and career, rather than partying like the wild party boys she’s sought out for years.

      2) A guy with the brains for learning a sophisticated profession probably understands cause and effect pretty well, e.g., make a habit of banging prostitutes, and eventually you get Herpes and maybe HIV, too. (Compare UMC adults to inner-city inhabitants, the latter of which have MUCH higher Herpes infection rates.)

      3) How about the fact that the median straight white male in America doesn’t have anywhere near that number of sex partners during his whole lifetime (like under half), and this guy’s not even halfway through his lifespan yet?

      4) Anyway, if the slut in the OP was taken as typical of U.S. women, during her 20s universally nuclear rejecting decent peer-age men of her own MMV, she would have made it a lot more understandable if those men HAD resorted to prostitutes (porn not being enough for everyone, even as a time-limited substitute). As in, get offered a job, and turn it down, you don’t have a right to get pissed off if it gets offered to someone else, and they take it. That includes hiring a temp (and what is a prostitute, but a VERY short-term sexual partner) for a while.

      5) Men don’t contract STDs from heterosex as easily as do women (and that’s without factoring in anal heterosex, which REALLY makes the rates starkly different between the 2 sexes).

      6) Lastly, Western men’s MMV isn’t generally much dinged by having had lots of partners, outside a few VERY religious groups. SMV, even less. For purposes of getting most women’s sexual interest, better to have had 100 partners than none. It’s being low in status, money, confidence, novelty, and, yes, looks, that kill the tingles for most women, NOT other women having demonstrated interest in him. Often, the latter helps; haven’t you heard the term “wingwoman”?

    • tarzanwannabe

      Largely because it would be an unfounded presumption based on data comparing the number of single ‘dating’ women vs. the number of prostitutes. So thanks for the outlier-angle. But Ok, allowing for the possibility of a given man having shagged 30 hookers, the valuable question/answer would not be “if”, but why? What options did he choose from? Further, would this outlier have made the same choice regardless of the options? Maybe someone out there with a hooker count comparable to Isabel’s jerk count would offer an opinion. ha!

    • Frosty

      You’re kidding right?

      No one would presume that because there’s no reason to presume that. You say “probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row”, where is the evidence and data that you use to make the judgement that this is probable?

    • The Rigorist

      I’m not sure about what Isabel is looking for, or thinking she is going to find, but Nice Guys, practically by definition, don’t get laid and are far more likely to try to get a woman out of a life of prostitution than fuck her.

  • Frosty

    Nice guys are those guys who genuinely want more from a relationship, not just to fuck but be committed to a decent human being who isn’t just a used up whore. Women in their early years have a naturally higher SMV (Sexual Market Value) and how much they decide to sleep around with the bad boys is really just a measure of their personality. I’m going to take a stab in the dark here and hazard a guess that most “nice guys” wouldn’t actually go near this woman. The only thing that really truly curbs this kind of behaviour in sluts is The Wall ™, when they hit later 20’s early 30’s and their SMV has passed that of males in her age range that’s when she’ll be ready to settle down, everything before that there’s a distinct risk of more bad boy behaviour.

    Interestingly enough this doesn’t have much to do with MGTOW, most MGTOWs understand red pill theory and how women like this behave, when they’re self confessed they’re easy to avoid, but actually distinguishing women like this from truly decent partners is basically like a lottery where the loosing ticket is to be emotionally, legally and financially raped. If society didn’t allow the systematic destruction of men as disposable tools of wealth generation, then there would be no risk to men and relationships with potentially risky women like this wouldn’t matter because you could make a mistake and move on (safely). Sadly that is not how society behaves and so for self preservation it’s better to go your own way.

    Love your work JB, and your interview with Paul Elam recently was really good, keep up the good work!

    • david

      I was going to post here but I read yours and couldnt have said it better myself. The so called nice guys have what I call self respect which is also what they look for in a mate is the same reason why the “NICE GUY” will never settle down with a used up women that had no self respect . I have always said some women you marry and some you dont. When these women finally mature later in life and realize these asshole jerks ran over them their younger years what makes them think the “NICE GUY” is going to have anything to do with them anyway?

      • Jim

        It takes 2. I wouldn’t classify all these guys as ‘assh****s. Society as a whole promotes immorality and portrays love and success as money and control. Be it male or female. In a pop culture that teaches supposed freedom from consequences, many a Man and women fall victim to it. They are taught the easy way is best, the quick buck, the quick hop into the sack, the quick road to success so to speak. Never being taught that success, especially within ones self is built through character and self discipline, where true happiness resides.

        It always amazes me how people view such an approach to life as being religious or strange. If you stand out because of being a non conformist to popular culture, you are seen as being in the cult so to speak. Yet pop CULTure, is the biggest and most insane cult going in the world of honesty and truth and damage done to this world as a whole.

        So it isn’t so much are living in a cult, it’s more which do you adhere to? Personally, the cult I live in, is binding myself to the golden rules, that teach me to love myself and others as my priority in life. I cannot control anyone else, or decide for them what they will follow, but I sure would love to live in a world where they joined my cult on a personal level of course. I could feel safe and loved around these people.

        If it sounds strange, think of it this way, Isn’t it just common sense, that we honer our elders, don’t murder, don’t cheat in our relationships with others, don’t steal from others, lie, or be jealous of others? I’ll take this way of life anyday over the popular cult mentality.

  • http://seymourhouse.wordpress.com waynebarwick

    I guess this article tells us this woman is a person ( or attempts to create a persona) and people are flawed. This proposed media persona is heavily flawed..and the World is full of flawed people.

    Its just a shame that these flawed personas are stuck in the places weak minded people looking for a role model are likely to read…deliberately so for the agenda of SALES.

  • Spaniard

    A plane jane, late teens,, can have dozens of men for free in a season.
    An ordinary boy, late teens, cannot have dozens of women for free in a season. He needs to pay for it (in case he has the money). Maybe he could have, for free… about 5? And that being very optimistic.

    So:

    Jerks for girls are equivalent to hookers for boys..

    • Frosty

      This is ridiculous. Just because an average male teen has a lower SMV (Sexual Market Value) than the average female equivalent, doesn’t mean he’s going to turn to prostitution.

      • Spaniard

        So, what he is going to do then?
        Cold showers?

        • Frosty

          Whatever he feels is best for the sexual release he needs, most teen males (in fact most males in general, even those in healthy relationships) watch porn to get off, it’s one of the biggest industries in the world.

          The very idea that somehow a majority of males would turn to prostitution is completely ridiculous. Most of the “nice guys” frown upon that kind of behaviour to begin with.

        • unapologetictruth

          You can’t get your head around there being more to life than getting laid and that is why you can’t envisage a man making a decision that goes deeper than this (no pun).

          • http://desperada57.wordpress.com desperada57

            Word. That getting laid is the be-all end-all of life just feeds into the stereotype.

    • Spaniard

      Plain Jane.

    • http://theasdgamerblog.wordpress.com theasdgamer

      Girls don’t pay for jerks. Also, when it comes to SMV, jerks are equal to HB8 and above.

      Jerks can have lots of girls (and usually do). They don’t need hookers.

      • Spaniard

        You did not understand me.
        I meant that girls go with jerks and boys go with hookers.
        Why boys don´t go with non professional sluts and save money?
        Because sluts are not easy.
        “Promiscuous” does not mean “easy”. Unfortunately.
        So, much boys have to pay if they want to ride the “pussy carousel”.

        • http://theasdgamerblog.wordpress.com theasdgamer

          I understood you. Do you think that jerks aren’t boys?

          Sluts are easy for jerks. You don’t have to pay for them if you’re a jerk. Hookups are free.

          Nice guys ™ have to pay for hookers. Wanking is free.

          Nice guys ™ have to pay for sluts when the sluts shift to the Beta Bux lane–usually in Frivorce Court when the sluts win Cash & Prizes.

          • Spaniard

            So, is better going with hookers since the very beginning.
            Cheaper, easier, safer… and maybe you can find the woman of your life! And she will earn a good money. You will not need to pay her everything coz she would be already rich (in case a high class escort)

        • Ferrum Itzal

          I think this is another case of a difference between nationalities and how they think.

          In America, hookers are available if you know where to look, but there’s a strong stigma attached to using them (never mind the legal and physical issues). It’s not something a school boy could take part in regularly, and “non-professional” sluts aren’t very common at all. In either case, the boy still has to be able to pay for the pussy.

          A schoolgirl, however, can have a mile of dick that doesn’t cost her anything. The guys will pay for all of her drinks, food, movies, clothes, whatever. They want to get laid, so they foot the bill for a chance at some tail.

          So, boys that can’t get a hooker can’t get anything. It’s cold showers and anger-management classes until they get a decent job and have some money coming in.

          • Spaniard

            In Europe a high class escort is classy. A courtesan.
            In Spain we have media and literature stars such Valerie Tasso.

            In this country, traditional fathers use to take their 18 year old sons to the brothel, for the first time.
            It is a respectable institution.

          • https://www.facebook.com/jason.wexler.54 Jason Wexler

            Really 18? Isn’t the age of consent effectively puberty in continental Europe? Why not sooner than 18?

          • Spaniard

            Less than 18 you are not allowed in brothels.

      • akulkis

        Women pay for jerks… in the form of emotional baggage that accumulates AND NEVER LEAVES EVER.

  • Spaniard

    I think my hooker count is about 100.
    Since 15 y/o to 44 y/o.

    My non professional women account is much modest, but is because I am a creep (I love that word, I found it so funny) I think the equivalent for “creep” is Spanish is “Baboso”, word which I like it so much, too.

    • akulkis

      Well aren’t you special.

      Most guys “nice guys” havbe better time preferences than you, and don’t consider blowing wads of $$$ and risking disease on some self-propelled cum-dumpster to be a very good use of their time, money, or body.

  • http://www.paulmurray.id.au Paul Murray

    Tell ya what, Isabel. I’ll give you my niceness, reliability, faithfulness and all the rest – not to mention my money – in return for one thing.

    The years.

    A girl only gets a few years, say 18-25, when she is young and nubile and hot. You spent those years on bad boys, which is totally your right to do. But those years are my price. Find yourself a Tardis, unwind time, and give those years of your life to me. I’ll work hard at my job, put a roof over your head and clothes on your back, give you kids to delight your old age in exchange for those particular five or so years.

    While we are at it – give me my youth back too, the years I spent alone and unloved, my young adulthood. Undo the bitterness that is my habitual facial expression now. Give me joy, back when I was young and it mattered.

    Do that, and we have a deal.

    • thedude

      Beautiful.

  • deti

    “Why not just pick one of the Nice Guys in the first place?

    Because then it wouldn’t be all about you?”

    Well, yes. But more specifically, because the Nice Guys aren’t sexually attractive to her.

    Paul Murray said it on another thread. The Nice Guy is analogous to the fat chick. Telling a woman to sex up and marry a Nice Guy is like telling a man to date, sex up and marry a fat chick.

    • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

      That is an interesting observation. I personally, have never, ever been attracted to Bad Boys. I had sufficient abuse during my upbringing and had no desire for more. I’ve never wanted anything to do with any guy that wasn’t interested in pursuing a relationship, even if that relationship didn’t work out in the end.

      Making negative comments about my appearance or suggesting that I’m not quite good enough doesn’t trigger any desire in me to prove you wrong. It makes me walk firmly in the other direction.

      No thanks.

      PUAs would fail miserably with me.

      And that’s not a new thing. I’ve always been that way.

      Maybe it comes from fear? I know what being abused in a relationship is truly like, albeit it was my parents who abused me – never a man I was dating. The thought of a man hitting me doesn’t turn me on – it scares the shit out of me.

      50 Shades of Grey is a nightmare, to me.

      • deti

        JB:

        All I can tell you is that from my experience and observation, women in the main are not sexually attracted to Nice Guys.

        By “nice guys” I am talking about the men who have been trained over the last 50 or so years to be deferential, supplicating, and pedestalizing to all women in general. These men have been specifically trained to suppress their own sexuality and to demonstrate “provider” bona fides. These men were specifically told and trained that women find beta providers sexually attractive. They were told that you befriend a woman before making moves on her; you don’t pursue a woman you want; and you always ask for permission before doing anything of a sexual nature.

        They pursue women using that strategy. When it fails, they become more frustrated and then are told “well, you aren’t being nice enough. You need to be nicer”. So they are nicer, and they fail. Again and again.

        But what’s going on here is that they are “nice” to the exclusion of being good men who stand up for themselves and refuse to take crap from anyone, including women.

        Not to mention the NiceGuy (TM) construct that feminists have created to further shame and discredit good men trying to compete in this fucked up SMP.

        • http://judgybitch.wordpress.com judgybitch

          We are definitely using two different definitions of Nice Guys. I wouldn’t find the men you described very appealing either.

          I think of Nice Guys as the ones who will not pander to women’s vanity and who refuse to play games or engage in drama. The sort of guy you would never dream of playing the “I’m going to flirt with other guys to make you jealous” game on, because he would deliver a withering look of contempt before walking away.

          The Bad Boys deliver a lot of drama. Nice Guys do not. But by refusing to do that, they are essentially saying “your value as a woman depends on something other than your hotness”. You would think feminists would LOVE these guys, but they don’t.

          Your nice guys seem like broken POWs in a war.

          • deti

            Most men are of the “niceguy” variety I described. There are a growing number of men like you have described. But the “niceguys” i describe are far, far more common, in my experience.

            Most men I knew were specifically trained to play into a woman’s frame. Specifically trained that you give a woman whatever she wants. Specifically trained to put up with a woman’s shit. Specifically trained that women are always right, and men are always wrong. Specifically trained that women’s sexuality is good, pure, noble, and selfless; while men’s sexuality is bad, dirty, base, evil, selfish, and criminal.

            And if you fail, it is because you’re not being nice enough and you need to be nicer.

          • deti

            “Your nice guys seem like broken POWs in a war. ”

            Sort of. It’s just that they were trained for an SMP that last existed around 1965.

            It’s like giving soldiers peashooters and short daggers, and sending them onto a battlefield up against an enemy armed with bazookas, anti-tank guns, and AR-15s.

          • Ira Scott

            The Nice Guys, much like the Nice Girls, are usually too busy to be dramatic. It’s much like fashion, if you think shaving half your head and dying the other half blue is what it takes to make you an interesting person – you’ve got bigger problems!

            I never pursued or pestered women I was interested in, and I was puzzled by this as a young man, but as I grew a little wiser I realised I cared very little for how I was supposed to act. When I met my wife I neither had to creep or caveman her; I think the idea is once you’ve gotten used to yourself (Isabel, take heed) you find your own way.

        • Jim

          Yup. The classic weak beta simp. That’s what happens when you let women not only raise boys but when schools will DRUG the masculinity right out of a young boy. Not to mention they’re guilted and punished into believing that their masculinity is criminal by itself. It’s disgusting.

      • deti

        JB:

        ANother thing that goes on is that good men, serious minded men with good jobs and stable lives are seen as NiceGuys. They’ve also been trained to treat women as equals and as human beings; and they also routinely fail with most women. Most of the time it’s because these men want sex AND relationships with the women they’re sexually interested in.

        For their part, the young women are NOT in the least interested in relationships headed toward marriage. Their attitudes are “yeah i’m interested in marriage, but NOT YET, not until I travel, have my career, get some life experience, and have some fun.”

        “Travel” means “bang hot men in exotic locations”.

        “Career” means “work a cushy job that lets me buy fun things.”

        “Life experience” means “have sex with hot men before I have to settle down and get married and be a boring wife and mother”.

        • Spaniard

          Just a question.
          Does any woman preffer an ugly bad boy over a handsome nice guy?

          Example of ugly jerk: John Belushi.
          Example of handsome nice guy: Robert Redford (as a young man). In fact, most of his rols are a “good, decent man”.

          Women would choose Belushi over Redford? Really?

          • deti

            No.

            ugly jerk/bad boy: STeven Tyler (lead singer of Aerosmith). Mick Jagger. Both got/get laid like tile.

            Robert Redford the persona is a “handsome GOOD guy” (not a handsome niceguy).

            Robert Redford the actor is alpha as fuck.

          • Spaniard

            Yes. He is alpha. But he is not jerk, not bad boy, not bad guy, not BDSM master, not dark triad, no shit. He is a normal, kind, nice, gentle person.
            Cary Grant was a gentleman type. George Clooney is gentleman type. Colin Firth is, too. Hugh Grant is gentleman type but with a “dark” touch.

            Nice guy/bad boy is crap.

            IS just the LOOKS!

            Mick Jagger was handsome when he was young. Litle femenine, Not very manly.

      • Spaniard

        One thing is what women say and another thing is what women want.

        In any case, 50 shades of Gray is not fair play. That Christian Gray is a young, muscular, handsome millionaire typical sterotype from Barbara Cartland´s novels. The point would be that the character of the BDSM master would be played by Marty Feldman or someone like him. Then, we would know for sure if ladys like to be BDSM subs so much.

        • Ferrum Itzal

          If you look around town, most bad boys are ugly. Weird tattoos everywhere, bad teeth, asymmetrical facial structure…. A James Dean type is a hollywood myth.

          It’s about perception, not reality. Belushi was an ugly man, but there were hundreds of women that wanted him because of how they perceived his life. None of them knew him, but they still wanted him because of what they thought he must be like.

          I can’t count the number of women I’ve met that drool over some pudgy male actor on the silver screen, but wouldn’t give a pudgy guy the time of day in real life. The difference? Perception. A man gets sexier and sexier as his bank account builds up….. or the perception of wealth builds up in peoples’ minds.

          Bill Gates couldn’t get laid in high school without drugs and alcohol….. but today he has to have guards to keep all the women at bay. What happened?

      • http://desperada57.wordpress.com desperada57

        You’re singing my song, judgy! We had enough abuse in our childhood – why would we want it to continue? 50 Shades of Grey is crap.

      • akulkis

        You’re definitely a rare one here in the states. The only places I’ve found with significant numbers of women like you are in the former communist nations [with the oppressive state, the women REALLY learned to value having a tight marital relationship].

    • John

      The nice guy is not analogous to the fat chick. I’m a nice guy. I always fell in “the friend zone” growing up and even still, girls find me “too nice” at times. Since turning 18, I’ve never had a problem finding women who are sexually attracted to me. Always physically attractive, intelligent women.

      A lot of girls like nice guys, and are sexually attracted to qualities besides bad attitudes, whereas there likely aren’t so many guys attracted to the “quality” of obesity.

      Also, a woman attracted to bad boys displays a quality I find unattractive and I don’t worry about that type of woman.

      • Spaniard

        Watch this girl in google: Melinda Balogh. Hungarian actress.
        Do not you find her sexy?
        I think she is gorgeous.

  • http://www.mintbeatz.com Rahul Suresh

    This is exactly Ridiculous

    • Spaniard

      Why?

      • http://www.mintbeatz.com Rahul suresh

        Apparently,Majority of males would turn over prostitution is completely what something ridiculous..

        • http://desperada57.wordpress.com desperada57

          Sorry, are you saying a majority of males would not hire a prostitute? Just need clarification.

          • http://desperada57.wordpress.com desperada57

            Sorry – dumb question and I can’t delete it.

  • onan

    she’s not done with the bad boys, they’re done with her.

  • Luke

    Never fully clearly said to women like this, who commonly proclaim that “there is that ONE special, perfect guy for me out there” (usually implied that he’ll scoop her up seconds before she hits the “wall”):

    “Sure, there WAS, but when he wanted to marry you, back in your early 20s, you weren’t remotely interested in that. So, he either married someone else, or gave up on the idea of marriage, at least to an American woman. You showed up 3 days late for your plane flight; why are you surprised it left without you?”

    • https://www.facebook.com/jason.wexler.54 Jason Wexler

      I am not sure that my interpretation of your post is what you had in mind, but what I caught on was the “there is that ONE special, perfect guy…” mentality which put me in mind of a brilliant Tim Minchin song.

  • Luke

    Spaniard
    April 23, 2014 at 18:45 #

    “Cary Grant was a gentleman type.”

    FOUR WOMEN walked out on Cary Grant. Ronald Reagan got left by his first wife because she didn’t think he was going to go far enough for her.

    Women’s now completely out-of-control hypergamy is the tragic joke of our time. Arranged marriage would be better than what we have now (as long as frivorcers left with nothing but their premarital/personal possessions, NOT the house or kids).

  • Walter

    Translation: Now I am passing my age and my value on the dating market is falling (and possibly I fattening) I’m looking for a beta male .
    Where I come from what she seeks is known as “Captain Save-Whore”.
    Sorry for my english I’m from Portugal.

    • Spaniard

      Bienvenido compañero ibérico.
      That is a universal concept, In Spain known as “salvaputas”.

      • Luke

        Please post only in English. This blog is from an English-speaking country.

        • Carlton

          Or you could learn some basic phrases from other languages. If I remember my high school Spanish class: the gentleman from Spain basically said ” good day my Iberian friend” since the other is from Portugal, 2 distinct countries with different but similar languages who share the Iberian peninsula in Western Europe.

      • JimBob

        That’s a beautiful word…I love it!

        Save-A-Puta! hahahahahaha

        (PS. I’m American…leanred a little Spanish in Junior High 30+ years agao…of course I learned the swear words first!)

    • James C

      That’s okay, Walter…we call it “Captain Save-a-ho”, which is the same thing. :)

  • Retrenched

    “Tired of assholes, I want a good man now” = “Tired of sex, I want a man who will pay my bills”

    No thanks.

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  • PossiblyAPerson

    “someone who will always show up, who will always make time for me and who will always respect me.”

    That is not an equal partner, you fucking tool. That is a sycophantic butler. For comparison: a healthy human being will have personal boundaries, occasionally use the word, “no”, and withhold respect when your actions are not respectable.

  • Robert What?

    Actually she is performing a great public service by alerting men as to what poison awaits them should they get into a LTR with it. I hope every guy in her geographical region reads the warning label.

  • http://lereactionnaire.blogspot.com Joël Cuerrier

    It’s like asking you to buy a very used 1999 Honda Civil and pretending it’s a 2014 Porsche.

  • JShaft

    HAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAH *sigh*

    Read the article before, but you managed to make me laugh at the same stupid a second time, from different perspectives.

    What’s truly funny about the whole thing, for me, is this: She manages to talk about herself and what she’s “learned” from her life choices the entire length of the article, without once even alluding to a single positive quality. Then again, maybe there’s a magical Nice Guy out there who yearns to listen to a woman talk about herself and all the hot Bad Boys she’s bedded all day and night, validating her all the while.

    More people than you think get off over far less readily believable things, so maybe her open letter will find Mr. Right. Unfortunately, I can see a possible logjam for her, even if that is the case…

    Economics. And I’ll explain why and have fun doing it, all while bringing you interesting knowledge dredged from my odd little life. Observe:

    Economically, the saddest people in the world are male sexual submissives. I mean full-blown S&M grade, high-heels-to-the-crotch wanting, no, needing guys. Why? Because the ratio is borked for them. For every 100 guys like that, there’s ONE gal who’s into it, or willing to service that need. In all my years hanging out in Goth clubs and the S&M crowd (purely because I like fishnets, and demand will always find a ready supply :p), I’ve honestly yet to personally meet a Dominatrix who I found, even out of character, vaguely attractive. That’s not to say they aren’t there, but just not that common even within a rare group.

    Now, back to my point: There have got to be fucking millions of women like this one. Millions. Everywhere. They went with demanding everything they wanted and started from the crotch and slowly worked up to the heart. Now here they are, with little to no idea how to find a nice guy who wants nothing more than to sit and hear about how awesome they are. Fine. Problem is, I’ve not met many of those guys. Seen a lot of versions of this article, most of which are written by people who I can even occasionally scrape together some empathy for. Sometimes people make mistakes, and sometimes they get stuck. In any case, we have millions of this gal, and I’ve never met this guy, but my understanding of the complexities of the human mind tell me there’ll be a few around…

    How many of these guys will be hot enough for her, wealthy enough, dress nicely enough, drive the right car, have a job whose hours are compatible with her lifestyle, etc etc etc? Possibly one? It may just be true!

    Now, there’s one him, and millions of jaded feminists who’ve generally enjoyed their time with the “Bad Boys” but want to come in from the cold.

    I don’t know what this lady looks like, what her voice sounds like, even what her ability to attract such men by whining in run-on sentences for hours without saying anything of substance is. What I can tell her is she’s in a specialist market, and there’s a really small supply, so she’d best start putting more work in!

    Best of luck to her!

  • Dave

    Dear Isabel
    Thank you for your offer.
    Unfortunately there are a few problems with your offer. I will make it succinct.
    1. You aren’t bringing much to the table. But that’s not your biggest problem.
    2. I fell for your type before when I was young and naive. After being completely destroyed through the family court process I now have no doubt at all about how any relationship with you would turn out.
    3. While you were being the town bicycle I was busy too. I learnt another language and travelled. I feel in love with one of the millions of women who are vastly superior to you in every aspect. She brings to the table everything you lack and more. Plus she brings it in abundance. We are married and have a relationship of a quality that you clearly lack the insight to attain.

    Hence no thanks. Not for all the tea in China.
    Invest in a cat or two.
    Sincerely
    Mr Nice Guy.

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  • JimBob

    Yep – NOWHERE does she say “this is what I’m offering you” or “this is what I’ve learned to GIVE”.

    Sigh/ Yes, she’s “only” 21…but wow. No giving there.

    Tell me again, why I would want her in my life?

  • Nice Guy

    If you want a Nice Guy, you will have to make him want you. He doesn’t need you and never will. But if you want to be wanted, you’ll need to cultivate some qualities that will make his already nice life better. Here’s a short list:

    Loyalty

    Steadfastness

    Good humour

    Generosity

    Intelligence

    Selflessness

    Heavens, that’s far too ambitious.

    My desiderata would be but two, were I looking for a wife.

    Virginity

    Respect

    …But alas, seeking a wife with even these two to offer a fellow is questing for a unicorn.

    • Jim

      Amen, I love the analogy. I do think though, that both Men and women can change and become what I would call sane again. It is not a road easily taken while in a relationship. No one can do it for us. We have to make the personal changes ourselves.

      I do believe people can return to the state we were all intended to be, and that is loving others as ourselves. It does take following the golden rules, first and foremost in our own lives where we learn what love is and how to love ourselves first, and then allowing that to spill over into the lives of others who are on the same road. Total selfishness, has not part in love.

  • Morpheus

    Very very nice offer. You sound like you have really matured, learned from all of your mistakes. You have grown into a woman, admitted your faults and know what type of man you want. The problem is…..well GTA 5 is being released for the PC on the 24th of March.

    Good bye and good luck. From probably one of the nicest guys you will never meet.

  • http://mgtow.com MGTOW

    MGTOW and happy here! Men, educate yourselves, empower yourselves, and decide if MGTOW is right for you.

    • http://judgybitch.com/2014/04/22/okay-mgotw-i-get-it-now-if-this-is-the-option-id-pass-too/ Ivan

      Get a trade licence like I did . Work hard.Make money and save . Do a good job . Eat organic .Drive a nice car . Be clean . Go to the GYM . Have friends . Go hunting and traveling . Enjoy life and stay the hell away form women !

  • http://theend2011.wordpress.com cptnemo2013

    Reblogged this on MGTOW 2.0.