Okay, MGTOW, I get it now. If this is the option, I’d pass too

22 Apr


Isabel Chalmers has written a truly compelling, heart wrenching piece at Thought Catalogue about how her slutty days are behind her and she’s ready to offer her vagina to a Nice Guy now.  That’s so sweet Isabel.  Let’s see what you have to offer:


Dear Nice Guy,


Note the lack of plural.  Isabel is not talking to Nice Guys as a group – she is addressing that one special Nice Guy to which she is obviously entitled.


I don’t know you yet but I’m so ready to date you. Seriously, I am. For a long time, I dated bad boys. Yes, I was that girl you blame for always coming in last. I guess I dated bad boys because, somehow, I liked their unavailability, sexy sideways glances, and late-night calls. I fed off the chase and mystery they provided me. I saw them as a challenge that I always happily accepted. Let me tell you, I’ve dated so many jerks throughout the years. A lot of times, I ended up being disappointed with how it ended with them, and wondered why I always had such blind optimism about these guys I clearly knew were jerks to begin with. But to be honest, I don’t regret any of it now.


You dated men you knew were unavailable, and the juxtaposition of “sexy” and “late night calls” strongly suggests you were a booty call for a whole bunch of them. You fed off the fact that they made you feel desirable – they chased you. Your word for these men is “jerks”. A lot of times you ended up disappointed?  A lot of times?  You’re kidding, right?


Let’s stop for a second here, Isabel, and think about what makes these guys “jerks”.  They function to pander to your inflated sense of sexual worth, respond exactly as if your sole value lies in providing sexual services, you prefer them over decent men who are clearly around and yet somehow it’s the guys who are “jerks”?


You claim to have repeatedly experienced “blind optimism” about these men, but what exactly were you optimistic about?  You deliberately chose men who viewed you strictly in terms of late night booty calls, and you were hoping that would proceed to what?  Marriage?  A long term relationship? That you would turn your Bad Boy into a Nice Guy?  Be his saviour?  His Florence Nightengale? Why not just pick one of the Nice Guys in the first place?


Because then it wouldn’t be all about you?


Just a theory.


I learned a lot from each and every one of those bad boys. I learned something from every un-answered text, from every “I’m just not looking for a relationship” talk, and from every lame excuse as to why he just couldn’t make to my house party until after 1 am. I guess I never let the jerks get to me. I realized it was never me; it was always them. I was born with an abundance of self-confidence. Maybe that’s why I was never too bothered by each guy who was a jerk to me. Maybe it was because I was smart enough to realize I never actually wanted to end up with a jerk. It was always you I wanted, Nice Guy.


Eight sentences, ten uses of “I”.  Hmmm.  Looks like my theory might be on to something. Oh, but good for you, realizing those jerks were the perfect receptacles for your decisions and your responsibility.  Hey, it couldn’t possibly be you that was the problem, right?  Nope, nopity, nope, nope. It was always them.


If you have so much self-confidence, honey, then why do you need to be continuously reassured of the fact that you are an object of desire?  I think you are confusing self-confident with narcissistic. I’m glad you weren’t bothered by each guy who was a jerk to you (and just how many are we talking about anyways?).  I wonder when it will occur to you that those jerks gave you exactly what you wanted from them.  When someone gives you what you ask for, how is that being a jerk?


With all that being said, I’m ready to date a Nice Guy.



Good for you.  Why would a Nice Guy want to date you?  What do you have to offer now that you’ve ridden every bad boy in town?


I’ve learned all the lessons I need to learn from bad boys. I now have the ability to distinguish between when to give up on a relationship and when to fight harder.



Uh, and how did you learn this, when all the bad boys rejected you as serious girlfriend material?


I know all the excuses and lies and can see when it’s right to say a big ‘f*ck you’ or an ‘okay, I’ll let you make it up to me.’



I’ll let you make it up to me? 



Oh honey, you are a peach!


I know what it’s like get all dressed up for a night out only to sit in your room watching Netflix, crying and staring at your phone because the person you had plans with never showed.



Is this the abundance of self-confidence you were talking about earlier?  Because that is just what self-confident girls do – cry and stare at their phones.


And that a “got too drunk sorry” text is not a sufficient excuse or apology.



But why would such a text surprise you?  You’ve chosen men who have an extremely limited view of your value, which you have explicitly encouraged by responding to the idea of being “chased”.  You want “mystery” – I think the mystery here is that you are shocked that sometimes men prefer cold beer over the stand-by pump and dump.  Yeah, that’s a blow to the ego, ain’t it?


I know all these things. My mom always said that the problem with people who end up unhappy is that they don’t know how to walk away from something that has already served its purpose.



Charming.  They’ve gone from bad boys to jerks to things.  I think your Mom is wrong, by the way.  People end up unhappy because they do not understand a fundamental truth about human beings:  we are happiest when we make others happy.  Of course, your Mom trashed her marriage when you were just kids and then remarried and now you live in a giant jumble of stepmoms and stepdads and stepkids and halfbrothers and assorted relatives that come and go along with the divorce decrees.  Not surprising you would see others as simple tools to learn you something new.


Well, I can see now that bad boys have served all the purpose they possibly could in my life and that it’s time for me to learn a new lesson. I want to learn from you, Nice Guy.


That’s nice.  You want to learn.  What exactly?  And what do you have to offer in exchange for this new learning you’re gonna acquire from Nice Guy?  And what happens when you’re done learning?  Is the Nice Guy just another thing for you to discard?


Why in the hell would any man sign up for that?


It’s time for me to learn what its like to have someone to fall back on when I feel weak.



Do you know how to offer that same strength in return? If your happiness has to do with discarding whatever has served its purpose, why should any Nice Guy trust that you are going to be there for him when the time comes?


It’s time for me to understand what its like to open up to someone without the fear that I’ll be emotionally shamed or that it will scare them away.


Do you know how to offer the same support in return?  Again, if your happiness is a revolving set of men who serve a purpose and then get tossed to the curb, why should any Nice Guy believe you will never emotionally shame him or run away?


It’s time for me to understand why people write love songs or tear up at the end of the notebook. I want to know what it’s like to be desired for more than my body, for someone to look at me with passionate eyes, slowly but surely falling in love with my mind, body and soul.


Aaaaand here we have it.  The unvarnished truth.  You want to be desired now for more than just your body.  That’s not enough. You now want to be desired body, mind and soul.  You are the star of the whole universe!  Every atom of you is precious!  You’re the specialest snowflake that ever snowflaked!


Ugh.  Seriously?  That’s what you think distinguishes bad boys from Nice Guys?  Bad boys chase your body, Nice Guys chase the whole package?


Here’s the thing about adult relationships, Isabel.  No one chases anyone else.  Mature relationships are not about you feeling your special feelings. They are about giving.


I’ll let you process that for a moment.


Your Nice Guy will give to you, absolutely.  That’s what makes him a Nice Guy.  But you are sadly mistaken if you think you just get to take, take, take until Nice Guy has served his purpose.


I want to know what it’s like to have someone who will always show up, who will always make time for me and who will always respect me. I want to know what it’s like to be able to count on someone, and know that even though love is never safe, I will be safely hurt by them. Mostly, I know I can learn all these things from you, Nice Guy.


And what will you offer in exchange?  Can you be counted on?  Can you be trusted never to hurt him? Will you always make time and always be respectful?  There is nothing in your letter, Isabel, that suggests you have the faintest inkling that there might be some requirements on your part to interest a Nice Guy.


I don’t want anyone thinking I hate bad boys. I don’t hate them; I’m just done with them. I have to thank bad boys for a lot actually. Bad boys have taught me how to depend on myself. How to pick up my broken pieces. They’ve allowed me to secure the perfect break-up remedy. Booze, friends, rebounds, cry, workout, acceptance, find new bad boy, repeat.


You’re done with them.  Discarded.  Tossed aside.  Ready for the next victim.  Gosh, prepare for men to line up around the block for the chance to be your next casualty. And it sounds like there have been rather a number of causalities in the past.  Always a charming quality in any woman.


I understand myself so much better because of these bad boys. I know what I’m like at my worst. But I’m ready to know what I’m like at my best.


Well, kudos to you for admitting you have no clue what you look like “at your best”.  Sadly, Isabel, you also have no clue what you at your best is supposed to look like.  You just want that Nice Guy to throw caution to the wind and hope that your “best” turns out to be a decent human being?  That’s rather a lot to ask.


I promise you this, Nice Guy: I don’t know you yet, but I will be a nice girl to you in return. I will show you what you’re like at you’re best. I will treat you with the respect you deserve and will always answer your call when you need me. I will show you what all those bitchy girls couldn’t.


Yep, we’re back to Square One:  you’re gonna show that Nice Guy what he’s like at his best.  You’re gonna save him!  Here’s the thing, cupcake, Nice Guys spend most of their lives “at their best”.  That’s what makes them Nice Guys.  He doesn’t need you to show him jack shit.  He doesn’t need you to save him from those bitchy girls (and recall that you were one of those bitchy girls).


He doesn’t need you for anything at all.


If you want a Nice Guy, you will have to make him want you.  He doesn’t need you and never will.  But if you want to be wanted, you’ll need to cultivate some qualities that will make his already nice life better.  Here’s a short list:



Good humour





You see, Isabel, Nice Guys have those qualities in abundance.  But why should they give them away?  Those are qualities that, when reciprocated, create beautiful, long-lasting relationships in which both partners are happier and more content than they were before the relationship.


So, I guess all there is left to say is… I’m ready whenever you are.


Don’t hold your breath.


Lots of love,






138 Responses to “Okay, MGTOW, I get it now. If this is the option, I’d pass too”

  1. Dude Where's My Freedom? April 23, 2014 at 01:50 #

    Because nothing appeals to “nice guys” like playing into stereotypes and just assuming that they’re all lonely and pathetic nerds who have sat around all these years watching Star Wars in their basements and anxiously awaiting the day when this beautiful and unique snowflake would FINALLY realize she’s wasting her time with the jocks and give the geeks some attention. Like a gender-flipped Taylor Swift song.

    This chick is in for a soul-crushing disappointment when she comes to the realization that the line for having an emotional commitment with a shallow and self-obsessed child is MUCH shorter than the line to fuck her and not call back always was.

    Sorry honey, but the “nice guys” are either already married to nice girls, or completely disinterested in putting up with the condescending attitude of a former frat-rat who feels like slumming it up a bit.

    • Goober April 24, 2014 at 20:21 #

      Fucking brilliant. Well said.

  2. Luke April 23, 2014 at 04:58 #

    The “whole package” to which the nice guy was initially attracted, way back when the chick referenced in the OP was still young, is GONE. First, imagine a Ferrari that 15 years ago was new and in perfect condition. Now, fast-forward the 15 years, 280,000 miles later, much of it at over 80 mph, not all of it on paved roads, a number of missed oil changes, original transmission fluid/brake fluid/radiator fluid, driven on many a road salted for snow… Not exactly worth full price now.

    The chick in question back in her teens still had her hymen and full ability to bond to a man, her pre-STD fertility still stretched ahead of her (instead of being chronologically chewed up, even if she’d been truly celibate), no wrinkles, few scars, pink vs. brown nips, not close to beginning balding (as women often do when older), whiter teeth that aren’t receding… Did I mention no debt, no (likely low-IQ/Learning Disabled/half-breed/Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) castoff b&stards, no huge piles of accumulated junk, no ill-trained constantly-shedding cats or other pointless pets — yeah, the “Before” and “After” on this chick are likely very, very different from a man’s POV.

    Apt cartoon about this:

    He should just progress in his profession and finances, and see if any of the young unused ones are available. Going overseas should definitely be considered, as should a vasectomy (with sperm frozen and NOT telling anyone about it).

  3. Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 07:12 #

    Why no one presume that this Nice Guy Isabel is craving for, probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row?

    • Luke April 23, 2014 at 07:36 #

      Well, Spaniard, there are multiple very good reasons that “no one presume that this Nice Guy Isabel is craving for, probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row”.

      1) He has had the discipline to focus most of his time on his education and career, rather than partying like the wild party boys she’s sought out for years.

      2) A guy with the brains for learning a sophisticated profession probably understands cause and effect pretty well, e.g., make a habit of banging prostitutes, and eventually you get Herpes and maybe HIV, too. (Compare UMC adults to inner-city inhabitants, the latter of which have MUCH higher Herpes infection rates.)

      3) How about the fact that the median straight white male in America doesn’t have anywhere near that number of sex partners during his whole lifetime (like under half), and this guy’s not even halfway through his lifespan yet?

      4) Anyway, if the slut in the OP was taken as typical of U.S. women, during her 20s universally nuclear rejecting decent peer-age men of her own MMV, she would have made it a lot more understandable if those men HAD resorted to prostitutes (porn not being enough for everyone, even as a time-limited substitute). As in, get offered a job, and turn it down, you don’t have a right to get pissed off if it gets offered to someone else, and they take it. That includes hiring a temp (and what is a prostitute, but a VERY short-term sexual partner) for a while.

      5) Men don’t contract STDs from heterosex as easily as do women (and that’s without factoring in anal heterosex, which REALLY makes the rates starkly different between the 2 sexes).

      6) Lastly, Western men’s MMV isn’t generally much dinged by having had lots of partners, outside a few VERY religious groups. SMV, even less. For purposes of getting most women’s sexual interest, better to have had 100 partners than none. It’s being low in status, money, confidence, novelty, and, yes, looks, that kill the tingles for most women, NOT other women having demonstrated interest in him. Often, the latter helps; haven’t you heard the term “wingwoman”?

    • tarzanwannabe April 23, 2014 at 09:58 #

      Largely because it would be an unfounded presumption based on data comparing the number of single ‘dating’ women vs. the number of prostitutes. So thanks for the outlier-angle. But Ok, allowing for the possibility of a given man having shagged 30 hookers, the valuable question/answer would not be “if”, but why? What options did he choose from? Further, would this outlier have made the same choice regardless of the options? Maybe someone out there with a hooker count comparable to Isabel’s jerk count would offer an opinion. ha!

    • Frosty April 23, 2014 at 10:29 #

      You’re kidding right?

      No one would presume that because there’s no reason to presume that. You say “probably has shagged 30 hookers in a row”, where is the evidence and data that you use to make the judgement that this is probable?

    • The Rigorist July 1, 2014 at 11:27 #

      I’m not sure about what Isabel is looking for, or thinking she is going to find, but Nice Guys, practically by definition, don’t get laid and are far more likely to try to get a woman out of a life of prostitution than fuck her.

  4. Frosty April 23, 2014 at 08:21 #

    Nice guys are those guys who genuinely want more from a relationship, not just to fuck but be committed to a decent human being who isn’t just a used up whore. Women in their early years have a naturally higher SMV (Sexual Market Value) and how much they decide to sleep around with the bad boys is really just a measure of their personality. I’m going to take a stab in the dark here and hazard a guess that most “nice guys” wouldn’t actually go near this woman. The only thing that really truly curbs this kind of behaviour in sluts is The Wall ™, when they hit later 20’s early 30’s and their SMV has passed that of males in her age range that’s when she’ll be ready to settle down, everything before that there’s a distinct risk of more bad boy behaviour.

    Interestingly enough this doesn’t have much to do with MGTOW, most MGTOWs understand red pill theory and how women like this behave, when they’re self confessed they’re easy to avoid, but actually distinguishing women like this from truly decent partners is basically like a lottery where the loosing ticket is to be emotionally, legally and financially raped. If society didn’t allow the systematic destruction of men as disposable tools of wealth generation, then there would be no risk to men and relationships with potentially risky women like this wouldn’t matter because you could make a mistake and move on (safely). Sadly that is not how society behaves and so for self preservation it’s better to go your own way.

    Love your work JB, and your interview with Paul Elam recently was really good, keep up the good work!

  5. waynebarwick April 23, 2014 at 08:27 #

    I guess this article tells us this woman is a person ( or attempts to create a persona) and people are flawed. This proposed media persona is heavily flawed..and the World is full of flawed people.

    Its just a shame that these flawed personas are stuck in the places weak minded people looking for a role model are likely to read…deliberately so for the agenda of SALES.

  6. Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 11:12 #

    A plane jane, late teens,, can have dozens of men for free in a season.
    An ordinary boy, late teens, cannot have dozens of women for free in a season. He needs to pay for it (in case he has the money). Maybe he could have, for free… about 5? And that being very optimistic.


    Jerks for girls are equivalent to hookers for boys..

    • Frosty April 23, 2014 at 11:21 #

      This is ridiculous. Just because an average male teen has a lower SMV (Sexual Market Value) than the average female equivalent, doesn’t mean he’s going to turn to prostitution.

      • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 12:21 #

        So, what he is going to do then?
        Cold showers?

        • Frosty April 23, 2014 at 14:09 #

          Whatever he feels is best for the sexual release he needs, most teen males (in fact most males in general, even those in healthy relationships) watch porn to get off, it’s one of the biggest industries in the world.

          The very idea that somehow a majority of males would turn to prostitution is completely ridiculous. Most of the “nice guys” frown upon that kind of behaviour to begin with.

        • unapologetictruth May 4, 2014 at 02:05 #

          You can’t get your head around there being more to life than getting laid and that is why you can’t envisage a man making a decision that goes deeper than this (no pun).

          • desperada57 May 5, 2014 at 13:10 #

            Word. That getting laid is the be-all end-all of life just feeds into the stereotype.

    • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 11:39 #

      Plain Jane.

    • theasdgamer April 23, 2014 at 12:16 #

      Girls don’t pay for jerks. Also, when it comes to SMV, jerks are equal to HB8 and above.

      Jerks can have lots of girls (and usually do). They don’t need hookers.

      • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 12:28 #

        You did not understand me.
        I meant that girls go with jerks and boys go with hookers.
        Why boys don´t go with non professional sluts and save money?
        Because sluts are not easy.
        “Promiscuous” does not mean “easy”. Unfortunately.
        So, much boys have to pay if they want to ride the “pussy carousel”.

        • theasdgamer April 23, 2014 at 14:00 #

          I understood you. Do you think that jerks aren’t boys?

          Sluts are easy for jerks. You don’t have to pay for them if you’re a jerk. Hookups are free.

          Nice guys ™ have to pay for hookers. Wanking is free.

          Nice guys ™ have to pay for sluts when the sluts shift to the Beta Bux lane–usually in Frivorce Court when the sluts win Cash & Prizes.

          • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 14:10 #

            So, is better going with hookers since the very beginning.
            Cheaper, easier, safer… and maybe you can find the woman of your life! And she will earn a good money. You will not need to pay her everything coz she would be already rich (in case a high class escort)

        • Ferrum Itzal April 23, 2014 at 14:18 #

          I think this is another case of a difference between nationalities and how they think.

          In America, hookers are available if you know where to look, but there’s a strong stigma attached to using them (never mind the legal and physical issues). It’s not something a school boy could take part in regularly, and “non-professional” sluts aren’t very common at all. In either case, the boy still has to be able to pay for the pussy.

          A schoolgirl, however, can have a mile of dick that doesn’t cost her anything. The guys will pay for all of her drinks, food, movies, clothes, whatever. They want to get laid, so they foot the bill for a chance at some tail.

          So, boys that can’t get a hooker can’t get anything. It’s cold showers and anger-management classes until they get a decent job and have some money coming in.

          • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 14:45 #

            In Europe a high class escort is classy. A courtesan.
            In Spain we have media and literature stars such Valerie Tasso.

            In this country, traditional fathers use to take their 18 year old sons to the brothel, for the first time.
            It is a respectable institution.

            • Jason Wexler April 23, 2014 at 15:51 #

              Really 18? Isn’t the age of consent effectively puberty in continental Europe? Why not sooner than 18?

              • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 16:52 #

                Less than 18 you are not allowed in brothels.

      • akulkis May 31, 2014 at 08:16 #

        Women pay for jerks… in the form of emotional baggage that accumulates AND NEVER LEAVES EVER.

  7. Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 11:21 #

    I think my hooker count is about 100.
    Since 15 y/o to 44 y/o.

    My non professional women account is much modest, but is because I am a creep (I love that word, I found it so funny) I think the equivalent for “creep” is Spanish is “Baboso”, word which I like it so much, too.

    • akulkis May 31, 2014 at 08:18 #

      Well aren’t you special.

      Most guys “nice guys” havbe better time preferences than you, and don’t consider blowing wads of $$$ and risking disease on some self-propelled cum-dumpster to be a very good use of their time, money, or body.

  8. Paul Murray April 23, 2014 at 14:44 #

    Tell ya what, Isabel. I’ll give you my niceness, reliability, faithfulness and all the rest – not to mention my money – in return for one thing.

    The years.

    A girl only gets a few years, say 18-25, when she is young and nubile and hot. You spent those years on bad boys, which is totally your right to do. But those years are my price. Find yourself a Tardis, unwind time, and give those years of your life to me. I’ll work hard at my job, put a roof over your head and clothes on your back, give you kids to delight your old age in exchange for those particular five or so years.

    While we are at it – give me my youth back too, the years I spent alone and unloved, my young adulthood. Undo the bitterness that is my habitual facial expression now. Give me joy, back when I was young and it mattered.

    Do that, and we have a deal.

    • thedude November 7, 2014 at 22:09 #


  9. deti April 23, 2014 at 15:58 #

    “Why not just pick one of the Nice Guys in the first place?

    Because then it wouldn’t be all about you?”

    Well, yes. But more specifically, because the Nice Guys aren’t sexually attractive to her.

    Paul Murray said it on another thread. The Nice Guy is analogous to the fat chick. Telling a woman to sex up and marry a Nice Guy is like telling a man to date, sex up and marry a fat chick.

    • judgybitch April 23, 2014 at 16:10 #

      That is an interesting observation. I personally, have never, ever been attracted to Bad Boys. I had sufficient abuse during my upbringing and had no desire for more. I’ve never wanted anything to do with any guy that wasn’t interested in pursuing a relationship, even if that relationship didn’t work out in the end.

      Making negative comments about my appearance or suggesting that I’m not quite good enough doesn’t trigger any desire in me to prove you wrong. It makes me walk firmly in the other direction.

      No thanks.

      PUAs would fail miserably with me.

      And that’s not a new thing. I’ve always been that way.

      Maybe it comes from fear? I know what being abused in a relationship is truly like, albeit it was my parents who abused me – never a man I was dating. The thought of a man hitting me doesn’t turn me on – it scares the shit out of me.

      50 Shades of Grey is a nightmare, to me.

      • deti April 23, 2014 at 16:23 #


        All I can tell you is that from my experience and observation, women in the main are not sexually attracted to Nice Guys.

        By “nice guys” I am talking about the men who have been trained over the last 50 or so years to be deferential, supplicating, and pedestalizing to all women in general. These men have been specifically trained to suppress their own sexuality and to demonstrate “provider” bona fides. These men were specifically told and trained that women find beta providers sexually attractive. They were told that you befriend a woman before making moves on her; you don’t pursue a woman you want; and you always ask for permission before doing anything of a sexual nature.

        They pursue women using that strategy. When it fails, they become more frustrated and then are told “well, you aren’t being nice enough. You need to be nicer”. So they are nicer, and they fail. Again and again.

        But what’s going on here is that they are “nice” to the exclusion of being good men who stand up for themselves and refuse to take crap from anyone, including women.

        Not to mention the NiceGuy (TM) construct that feminists have created to further shame and discredit good men trying to compete in this fucked up SMP.

        • judgybitch April 23, 2014 at 16:27 #

          We are definitely using two different definitions of Nice Guys. I wouldn’t find the men you described very appealing either.

          I think of Nice Guys as the ones who will not pander to women’s vanity and who refuse to play games or engage in drama. The sort of guy you would never dream of playing the “I’m going to flirt with other guys to make you jealous” game on, because he would deliver a withering look of contempt before walking away.

          The Bad Boys deliver a lot of drama. Nice Guys do not. But by refusing to do that, they are essentially saying “your value as a woman depends on something other than your hotness”. You would think feminists would LOVE these guys, but they don’t.

          Your nice guys seem like broken POWs in a war.

          • deti April 23, 2014 at 16:41 #

            Most men are of the “niceguy” variety I described. There are a growing number of men like you have described. But the “niceguys” i describe are far, far more common, in my experience.

            Most men I knew were specifically trained to play into a woman’s frame. Specifically trained that you give a woman whatever she wants. Specifically trained to put up with a woman’s shit. Specifically trained that women are always right, and men are always wrong. Specifically trained that women’s sexuality is good, pure, noble, and selfless; while men’s sexuality is bad, dirty, base, evil, selfish, and criminal.

            And if you fail, it is because you’re not being nice enough and you need to be nicer.

          • deti April 23, 2014 at 17:00 #

            “Your nice guys seem like broken POWs in a war. ”

            Sort of. It’s just that they were trained for an SMP that last existed around 1965.

            It’s like giving soldiers peashooters and short daggers, and sending them onto a battlefield up against an enemy armed with bazookas, anti-tank guns, and AR-15s.

          • Ira Scott April 28, 2014 at 22:21 #

            The Nice Guys, much like the Nice Girls, are usually too busy to be dramatic. It’s much like fashion, if you think shaving half your head and dying the other half blue is what it takes to make you an interesting person – you’ve got bigger problems!

            I never pursued or pestered women I was interested in, and I was puzzled by this as a young man, but as I grew a little wiser I realised I cared very little for how I was supposed to act. When I met my wife I neither had to creep or caveman her; I think the idea is once you’ve gotten used to yourself (Isabel, take heed) you find your own way.

        • Jim April 24, 2014 at 22:57 #

          Yup. The classic weak beta simp. That’s what happens when you let women not only raise boys but when schools will DRUG the masculinity right out of a young boy. Not to mention they’re guilted and punished into believing that their masculinity is criminal by itself. It’s disgusting.

      • deti April 23, 2014 at 16:34 #


        ANother thing that goes on is that good men, serious minded men with good jobs and stable lives are seen as NiceGuys. They’ve also been trained to treat women as equals and as human beings; and they also routinely fail with most women. Most of the time it’s because these men want sex AND relationships with the women they’re sexually interested in.

        For their part, the young women are NOT in the least interested in relationships headed toward marriage. Their attitudes are “yeah i’m interested in marriage, but NOT YET, not until I travel, have my career, get some life experience, and have some fun.”

        “Travel” means “bang hot men in exotic locations”.

        “Career” means “work a cushy job that lets me buy fun things.”

        “Life experience” means “have sex with hot men before I have to settle down and get married and be a boring wife and mother”.

        • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 17:01 #

          Just a question.
          Does any woman preffer an ugly bad boy over a handsome nice guy?

          Example of ugly jerk: John Belushi.
          Example of handsome nice guy: Robert Redford (as a young man). In fact, most of his rols are a “good, decent man”.

          Women would choose Belushi over Redford? Really?

          • deti April 23, 2014 at 17:24 #


            ugly jerk/bad boy: STeven Tyler (lead singer of Aerosmith). Mick Jagger. Both got/get laid like tile.

            Robert Redford the persona is a “handsome GOOD guy” (not a handsome niceguy).

            Robert Redford the actor is alpha as fuck.

            • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 18:45 #

              Yes. He is alpha. But he is not jerk, not bad boy, not bad guy, not BDSM master, not dark triad, no shit. He is a normal, kind, nice, gentle person.
              Cary Grant was a gentleman type. George Clooney is gentleman type. Colin Firth is, too. Hugh Grant is gentleman type but with a “dark” touch.

              Nice guy/bad boy is crap.

              IS just the LOOKS!

              Mick Jagger was handsome when he was young. Litle femenine, Not very manly.

      • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 18:35 #

        One thing is what women say and another thing is what women want.

        In any case, 50 shades of Gray is not fair play. That Christian Gray is a young, muscular, handsome millionaire typical sterotype from Barbara Cartland´s novels. The point would be that the character of the BDSM master would be played by Marty Feldman or someone like him. Then, we would know for sure if ladys like to be BDSM subs so much.

        • Ferrum Itzal April 23, 2014 at 19:53 #

          If you look around town, most bad boys are ugly. Weird tattoos everywhere, bad teeth, asymmetrical facial structure…. A James Dean type is a hollywood myth.

          It’s about perception, not reality. Belushi was an ugly man, but there were hundreds of women that wanted him because of how they perceived his life. None of them knew him, but they still wanted him because of what they thought he must be like.

          I can’t count the number of women I’ve met that drool over some pudgy male actor on the silver screen, but wouldn’t give a pudgy guy the time of day in real life. The difference? Perception. A man gets sexier and sexier as his bank account builds up….. or the perception of wealth builds up in peoples’ minds.

          Bill Gates couldn’t get laid in high school without drugs and alcohol….. but today he has to have guards to keep all the women at bay. What happened?

      • desperada57 April 26, 2014 at 17:41 #

        You’re singing my song, judgy! We had enough abuse in our childhood – why would we want it to continue? 50 Shades of Grey is crap.

      • akulkis May 31, 2014 at 08:22 #

        You’re definitely a rare one here in the states. The only places I’ve found with significant numbers of women like you are in the former communist nations [with the oppressive state, the women REALLY learned to value having a tight marital relationship].

    • John April 24, 2014 at 20:03 #

      The nice guy is not analogous to the fat chick. I’m a nice guy. I always fell in “the friend zone” growing up and even still, girls find me “too nice” at times. Since turning 18, I’ve never had a problem finding women who are sexually attracted to me. Always physically attractive, intelligent women.

      A lot of girls like nice guys, and are sexually attracted to qualities besides bad attitudes, whereas there likely aren’t so many guys attracted to the “quality” of obesity.

      Also, a woman attracted to bad boys displays a quality I find unattractive and I don’t worry about that type of woman.

      • Spaniard April 24, 2014 at 20:59 #

        Watch this girl in google: Melinda Balogh. Hungarian actress.
        Do not you find her sexy?
        I think she is gorgeous.

  10. Rahul Suresh April 23, 2014 at 17:41 #

    This is exactly Ridiculous

    • Spaniard April 23, 2014 at 18:46 #


      • Rahul suresh April 27, 2014 at 02:16 #

        Apparently,Majority of males would turn over prostitution is completely what something ridiculous..

        • desperada57 April 27, 2014 at 17:18 #

          Sorry, are you saying a majority of males would not hire a prostitute? Just need clarification.

          • desperada57 May 5, 2014 at 13:15 #

            Sorry – dumb question and I can’t delete it.

  11. onan April 23, 2014 at 18:45 #

    she’s not done with the bad boys, they’re done with her.

  12. Luke April 23, 2014 at 19:48 #

    Never fully clearly said to women like this, who commonly proclaim that “there is that ONE special, perfect guy for me out there” (usually implied that he’ll scoop her up seconds before she hits the “wall”):

    “Sure, there WAS, but when he wanted to marry you, back in your early 20s, you weren’t remotely interested in that. So, he either married someone else, or gave up on the idea of marriage, at least to an American woman. You showed up 3 days late for your plane flight; why are you surprised it left without you?”

    • Jason Wexler April 23, 2014 at 20:19 #

      I am not sure that my interpretation of your post is what you had in mind, but what I caught on was the “there is that ONE special, perfect guy…” mentality which put me in mind of a brilliant Tim Minchin song.

  13. Luke April 23, 2014 at 20:24 #

    April 23, 2014 at 18:45 #

    “Cary Grant was a gentleman type.”

    FOUR WOMEN walked out on Cary Grant. Ronald Reagan got left by his first wife because she didn’t think he was going to go far enough for her.

    Women’s now completely out-of-control hypergamy is the tragic joke of our time. Arranged marriage would be better than what we have now (as long as frivorcers left with nothing but their premarital/personal possessions, NOT the house or kids).

  14. Walter April 24, 2014 at 03:43 #

    Translation: Now I am passing my age and my value on the dating market is falling (and possibly I fattening) I’m looking for a beta male .
    Where I come from what she seeks is known as “Captain Save-Whore”.
    Sorry for my english I’m from Portugal.

    • Spaniard April 24, 2014 at 21:05 #

      Bienvenido compañero ibérico.
      That is a universal concept, In Spain known as “salvaputas”.

      • Luke April 26, 2014 at 02:26 #

        Please post only in English. This blog is from an English-speaking country.

        • Carlton July 8, 2014 at 18:23 #

          Or you could learn some basic phrases from other languages. If I remember my high school Spanish class: the gentleman from Spain basically said ” good day my Iberian friend” since the other is from Portugal, 2 distinct countries with different but similar languages who share the Iberian peninsula in Western Europe.

      • JimBob October 24, 2014 at 19:29 #

        That’s a beautiful word…I love it!

        Save-A-Puta! hahahahahaha

        (PS. I’m American…leanred a little Spanish in Junior High 30+ years agao…of course I learned the swear words first!)

    • James C May 26, 2014 at 20:30 #

      That’s okay, Walter…we call it “Captain Save-a-ho”, which is the same thing. :)

  15. Retrenched April 26, 2014 at 18:00 #

    “Tired of assholes, I want a good man now” = “Tired of sex, I want a man who will pay my bills”

    No thanks.

  16. PossiblyAPerson May 10, 2014 at 10:12 #

    “someone who will always show up, who will always make time for me and who will always respect me.”

    That is not an equal partner, you fucking tool. That is a sycophantic butler. For comparison: a healthy human being will have personal boundaries, occasionally use the word, “no”, and withhold respect when your actions are not respectable.

  17. Robert What? May 11, 2014 at 00:17 #

    Actually she is performing a great public service by alerting men as to what poison awaits them should they get into a LTR with it. I hope every guy in her geographical region reads the warning label.

  18. Joël Cuerrier May 11, 2014 at 10:43 #

    It’s like asking you to buy a very used 1999 Honda Civil and pretending it’s a 2014 Porsche.

  19. JShaft May 20, 2014 at 06:48 #


    Read the article before, but you managed to make me laugh at the same stupid a second time, from different perspectives.

    What’s truly funny about the whole thing, for me, is this: She manages to talk about herself and what she’s “learned” from her life choices the entire length of the article, without once even alluding to a single positive quality. Then again, maybe there’s a magical Nice Guy out there who yearns to listen to a woman talk about herself and all the hot Bad Boys she’s bedded all day and night, validating her all the while.

    More people than you think get off over far less readily believable things, so maybe her open letter will find Mr. Right. Unfortunately, I can see a possible logjam for her, even if that is the case…

    Economics. And I’ll explain why and have fun doing it, all while bringing you interesting knowledge dredged from my odd little life. Observe:

    Economically, the saddest people in the world are male sexual submissives. I mean full-blown S&M grade, high-heels-to-the-crotch wanting, no, needing guys. Why? Because the ratio is borked for them. For every 100 guys like that, there’s ONE gal who’s into it, or willing to service that need. In all my years hanging out in Goth clubs and the S&M crowd (purely because I like fishnets, and demand will always find a ready supply :p), I’ve honestly yet to personally meet a Dominatrix who I found, even out of character, vaguely attractive. That’s not to say they aren’t there, but just not that common even within a rare group.

    Now, back to my point: There have got to be fucking millions of women like this one. Millions. Everywhere. They went with demanding everything they wanted and started from the crotch and slowly worked up to the heart. Now here they are, with little to no idea how to find a nice guy who wants nothing more than to sit and hear about how awesome they are. Fine. Problem is, I’ve not met many of those guys. Seen a lot of versions of this article, most of which are written by people who I can even occasionally scrape together some empathy for. Sometimes people make mistakes, and sometimes they get stuck. In any case, we have millions of this gal, and I’ve never met this guy, but my understanding of the complexities of the human mind tell me there’ll be a few around…

    How many of these guys will be hot enough for her, wealthy enough, dress nicely enough, drive the right car, have a job whose hours are compatible with her lifestyle, etc etc etc? Possibly one? It may just be true!

    Now, there’s one him, and millions of jaded feminists who’ve generally enjoyed their time with the “Bad Boys” but want to come in from the cold.

    I don’t know what this lady looks like, what her voice sounds like, even what her ability to attract such men by whining in run-on sentences for hours without saying anything of substance is. What I can tell her is she’s in a specialist market, and there’s a really small supply, so she’d best start putting more work in!

    Best of luck to her!

  20. Dave July 3, 2014 at 04:06 #

    Dear Isabel
    Thank you for your offer.
    Unfortunately there are a few problems with your offer. I will make it succinct.
    1. You aren’t bringing much to the table. But that’s not your biggest problem.
    2. I fell for your type before when I was young and naive. After being completely destroyed through the family court process I now have no doubt at all about how any relationship with you would turn out.
    3. While you were being the town bicycle I was busy too. I learnt another language and travelled. I feel in love with one of the millions of women who are vastly superior to you in every aspect. She brings to the table everything you lack and more. Plus she brings it in abundance. We are married and have a relationship of a quality that you clearly lack the insight to attain.

    Hence no thanks. Not for all the tea in China.
    Invest in a cat or two.
    Mr Nice Guy.

  21. JimBob October 25, 2014 at 02:44 #

    Yep – NOWHERE does she say “this is what I’m offering you” or “this is what I’ve learned to GIVE”.

    Sigh/ Yes, she’s “only” 21…but wow. No giving there.

    Tell me again, why I would want her in my life?

  22. Nice Guy November 8, 2014 at 17:39 #

    If you want a Nice Guy, you will have to make him want you. He doesn’t need you and never will. But if you want to be wanted, you’ll need to cultivate some qualities that will make his already nice life better. Here’s a short list:



    Good humour




    Heavens, that’s far too ambitious.

    My desiderata would be but two, were I looking for a wife.



    …But alas, seeking a wife with even these two to offer a fellow is questing for a unicorn.


  1. Linkage | Uncouth Reflections - April 29, 2014

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