Older men with younger women = bad! Older women with younger men = okay!

This is Alyssa Royse:

alyssa

She looks like fun, no?  Let’s have some with her.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/03/eye-candy-sugar-daddies-cougars-oh-my-nsfw-alyssa-royse/

[Note:  Alyssa is in italics]

The dialog about men our age [40 something] dating women half our age is a conversation that needs to be had.

Okie, dokie, Alyssa.  Let’s give ‘er!

couple

And it has been, in comments and Facebook threads and emails. This is a sloppy sampling, that I hope will spark a larger conversation that we can all work with.

 Why are so many men our age being drawn to women half our age?

 I have no idea, really. Though I can make some guesses.

 

No shit, you have no idea.

I suspect that they’re looking for sex and good times, in a way that they think will have no strings attached. There are a lot of flaws in this line of reasoning—a lot.

 

You got that right, cupcake!

Sex, like most things, gets better with practice. I know that I give a better blowjob at 41 than I did at 31, or 21.

 

I’ll bet!

The strings are attached, very attached. I’m sorry, but if a 25 year-old woman is interested in a 45 year-old guy, it’s very likely because she wants something. To be taken care of, to get married, to have a family. Even if she says she doesn’t. At that age, they’re still planning their future, and if they’re f*cking you, it’s because they, maybe unconsciously, think you can help them get it. (Especially if you have lots of money.) (Extra especially if you have lots of money, a pot-belly and a hairy back.)

Okay, first of all, a young woman who is looking to get married, have a family and rely on her husband for support while they have young children at home is SMART.  That young lady is planning her future very well, and understanding that a key part of her future will include a clever, capable, confident MAN is a very sensible thing to do.

Secondly, nice man-shaming there.  Pot-belly?  Hairy back?  Honey, have you looked in a mirror recently?  I don’t think you should be calling out anyone on their looks, sweetpea.

Thirdly, the fact that these older men have money is corollary to the fact that men who have money also tend to have a few qualities women find exceptionally attractive:  confidence, boldness, a willingness to take risks, assertiveness, courage, intelligence, leadership.  Younger women in particular find these men attractive, and they have something to trade on that older women, for the most part, no longer have.

We’ll get to that in more detail.

In their 20s, most people don’t really know themselves enough to be centered. Their expectations will seep out in all sorts of ways: jealousy, manipulation, fighting, games. Those are all strings, whether they’re pulled intentionally or not.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.  I knew myself perfectly well in my twenties and at no point in my adult life have I ever been the sort of shrew who played mental games or used emotional manipulation or behaved like a jealous, insecure child.

I think you’re describing yourself here, love, and you are very much in the minority.

From many conversations with both men and women in their early 40s, I think that many men have an unconscious desire to return to the glory days of their initial sexual awakening.

Not just sex, but that sex, young sex. When guys are first claiming their sexuality, in their late teens and early 20s, there’s no responsibility, the pussy is all young, it’s all a party and nothing is permanent. Sex is just sex. Moreover, they’re lauded for their conquests. Nothing but fun. They’re too young to realize that their partner may be having a different experience, so it seems perfect.

Nice caricature of men.  Horny assholes who barely notice the women they’re fucking with no thought of anything but their own pleasure.  This really is one of the most damaging stereotypes about men.  It denies them an emotional life and portrays them as little more than animals.

The entire world of art and poetry and literature and music and theatre and architecture tells a different story:  young men consumed with passion and love and the depth of their feelings and then translating those feelings into utter magnificence.

byron

She walks in beauty, like the night

 Of cloudless climes and starry skies;

 And all that’s best of dark and bright

 Meet in her aspect and her eyes:

 Thus mellow’d to that tender light

 Which heaven to gaudy day denies.

Lord Byron was 26 years old.

Through the storm

we reach the shore

You give it all

but I want more

And I’m waiting for you

Bono was 27 years old.

picasso

Picasso was 21.

The idea that men are incapable of forming or even caring about deep, emotional connections with women denies them their very basic humanity.  Jack didn’t want to (only) fuck Rose.  He loved her.  He wanted to show her the world from his perspective.  Teach her to fly.  He was prepared to die for her.  He did die for her.

titanic

So Alyssa, fuck you with your ugly stereotypes about men.  That’s my son you’re talking about.  My husband.  My brothers.  My friends.  You may have been treated like meat by all the men you slept with in your twenties, but that says far more about you than them.

Then life goes on, many get married, get jobs, start families. During that time, for whatever reason, sex often dissipates, and what sex there is becomes a form of emotional commerce. Their sex drives haven’t necessarily dissipated, but their sex lives have. And they’ve become fraught with responsibility, guilt, angst, manipulation, judgement..

Wow, you sound like you were a delightful wife.  Sex as emotional commerce.  How lovely.  I really hope you mean sex as a way to stay deeply connected to your partner and a source of comfort and security, but I’m thinking perhaps not.

Married sex as responsibility, guilt, angst, manipulation and judgement.

Holy hell, Alyssa.  You’re doing it wrong.

When they find themselves divorced in their early 40s, some naturally want to go back to how sex was, so they look to the last place they had it—the early 20s. I doubt, really, if most men give it any more thought than that. I certainly don’t think that most men are predatory in any way. But if they’re looking for hot sex with no strings attached, then women in the most dramatic age of their life who are looking for security are not the place to find it.

 

See, now this is where your whole argument falls apart.  Nice to you to disavow that men are intentionally predatory when it comes to sex, but that rings a little hollow when in the next breath you claim they are just looking for hot sex with no strings attached.

If that’s not predatory, then what is?

Do you think it’s possible that maybe, just maybe, they are looking for sex that ISN’T loaded with responsibility, guilt, angst, manipulation and judgement? And that the women in their own age category are no longer capable of offering physical communion that is joyful and enthusiastic and mutually pleasurable and just plain old fun?

Maybe?

Women on the other hand, tend to have a very different experience when we first come into our sexuality in our late teens and early 20s.

 It’s a time of tremendous insecurity, of being used just for our bodies, of being called uptight if we don’t have sex and sluts if we do. Much of the time, when we do have sex, it’s to get something, or because we think we have to—if we don’t f*ck him, he’ll find someone else who will, and we’ll lose him. (And we’re still young enough to believe that we need him.) We worry about our bodies, our reputation, our skills. It is not a great time for most women.

Much of the time, when we do have sex, it’s to get something?  Sounds a little predatory to me. So basically, you’re saying that young women in their twenties are just whores trading sex for the stuff they can get?  How lovely.

And you know, not every woman is crippled with anxiety and self-doubt or completely caught up in what other people think of us.  Indeed, I think the opposite is true.  Young women aren’t concerned about their bodies – have you heard of the obesity epidemic?  Their reputations?  Yeah, Girls Gone Wild speaks volumes about how much young women care about their reputations.  And skills?  What skills are we talking about here?  Your ability to deep-throat?

ggw

You might want to stop for a moment and consider that all those great skills you were concerned about acquiring in your twenties sent the men you were dating a message:  I’ve been around, boys.

There is a huge difference between exploring your sexuality in the context of a loving relationship with someone you care about deeply, and finding mutual pleasures together, and just blowing a whole bunch of guys until you get good at it.

Bleh.

Makes me want mouthwash just thinking about it.

So when we find ourselves divorced in our early 40s, many of us have a second sexual awakening. We aren’t looking back to that first time, we’re claiming it for ourselves, for the first time. Our hormones are raging, biologically speaking, we’re at our peak. Emotionally speaking, we have figured ourselves out and have autonomous agency over our bodies and desires that nobody in their early 20s can have.

 

You find yourself divorced?  Goodness!  I wonder why?

You’re claiming your sexual awakening for yourselves, are you?  Now you’ve run to the opposite end of the spectrum.  Instead of having sex to get stuff or to keep your boyfriend, you’re having sex only to please yourself?

Good plan.  I’ll bet you have a line of men outside your door who want to hop in the sack with someone who claims sexuality just for themselves. Sounds like hours of fun.

What many of us want are men our age who have the same power and wisdom and experience, who will want us for who we are as people. We’ve given away the sexy bits for too long, on other people’s terms. Now we want to really use it, but on our terms. With people who appreciate it. Ideally, people who want a hot body, a sharp mind, an independent woman—no puppet strings going in either direction.

You know why men don’t want you as a person?

Because you’re not a very nice person.

You’re bitter and angry and righteous and shallow and superficial and most of all, deeply, brutally selfish.

We don’t want to be your mother. We don’t want you to be our father. We want equals. And hot sex.

Oh, honey.  Not very many men want to have sex with their mothers.  But don’t confuse being loving and nurturing and kind and thoughtful with being someone’s mother.  Men do like those things (so do women), and there is nothing wrong with wanting or giving those things.

I’m going to tell you the secret to really hot sex, but you won’t like it.

Forget about your own pleasure.  Don’t give it one moment’s thought.  Focus entirely on his pleasure, and his alone.  Let YOUR pleasure be HIS.

Know why?  Because when you enthusiastically and completely immerse yourself in another person’s pleasure, all their instincts are to do the same for you.  When you STOP making sex a competition (who came first last time?) and START making it about delivering the most mind-blowing experience to your partner, you get it back in spades.

When your whole world is his pleasure, and his whole world is yours, that’s when the earth moves.

You get out what you put in, so to speak.

Why does it seem so wrong?

 Why does it seem so wrong when guys our age date women half their age?

Because you’re a miserable cow who just spent a decade or more using sex to emotionally manipulate your partner and now you can’t stand that men have pretty much had enough of your shit and are looking to greener pastures?

Oops.

Got ahead of myself there.

There’s an inherent power differential here that makes “true” consent almost impossible. She may say yes to things that she may not want, or may harm her in the long run, in order to get her goal. She’s not necessarily able to protect herself emotionally because she’s putting her emotional self on the back burner—because, in many cases, she hasn’t learned not to.

You’ve got to be kidding me.  This is essentially an argument that sex with older men is rape.  If you can’t give true consent, that’s rape.  Adult women are so stupid, so fragile, so immature that they can’t consent to sex with someone older than themselves?

Wow.

You’re missing the REAL power differential.  A 45 year old man with a 25 year old girlfriend who is at the peak of her fertility and sexual attractiveness is very likely to be gobsmacked with desire, and he is the one who is vulnerable to emotional abuse.

older

You don’t think young women know that?  My ass, they don’t.  There is nothing quite like the intoxicating power of being sexually desired by a powerful man.

When I was in my twenties, I was involved in a serious relationship with a man nearly 30 years older than me.  He was insanely rich, handsome, sophisticated, intelligent and oh so very appealing.  He had lost his wife to cancer and raised their two children alone, and he did a remarkable job.  They were utterly lovely people.  Our relationship ended with a marriage proposal, but when push came to shove, I found that having children was something I was not prepared to sacrifice, and he did not want to start another family.

I know very well what it is like to be the younger partner and to be desired. And so do all these young ladies dating older men.  It’s a key part of the man’s appeal.

It’s also a weak choice for the man. It’s like an NBA player going one-on-one with a high-school player. How cool does the NBA player really look when he scores? And how good does he really feel?

Nice try.  How good does he feel?  Pretty fucking good.

Jealous much?

But beyond that, many of these men are inadvertently validating the notion that most young women still have—that the only thing of value is their sexiness. We’re drenched in media images that tell us we have to be sexy. Not smart, not strong, not driven, not creative, not even kind. Just sexy. We’re only as valuable as we are sexy. The way we get things is with sex. When we’re no longer sexy, we’ll be tossed aside for someone who is sexy. Which is what it looks like when the older guy is with the younger new model of a girl.

Alsyssa, it looks like that to you because you have zero clue what sexy means.  Sexy IS smart, strong, driven, creative and kind.  You take all those qualities and couple them with a strong, fit body and a cheerful personality and you have sexy in a jar, love.

nigella

This comes back to you thinking that men are pigs who only care about a firm ass and a nice rack.  That men will accept any kind of bitchy, manipulative, stupid, irritating, emotionally dysfunctional woman as long as she looks good.

If that were true, you wouldn’t have any trouble getting dates, now would you? I mean, for 40 something, you’re in good shape, but that’s not enough is it?

Men want more than just good shape.

When the supposedly older, wiser and more powerful amongst us behave this way, it validates those messages, becomes the acceptable mode of behavior. Imagine it’s your daughter, is that what you want her to learn? Do you want to teach her that that’s her value, and that’s how she should expect to be and accept being treated?

 No? Then don’t set that example.

Actually, yes. That’s exactly what I want to teach her.  Being sexy is BOTH your personality and your body.  Those two things work in concert.

Again, I don’t know any men who would do this intentionally. But they do it unintentionally quite often. And it damages everyone. (Including themselves. They too deserve to be loved for who they are, not just what they can provide.)

I’m beginning to think you don’t know any men at all.

So what, if so many are doing it knowingly? She’s getting spoiled, he’s getting laid, it’s equal commerce, right?

Wrong. In early adulthood, women are defining who they will be for the next decades. Just like in early childhood, when we teach children what works and what doesn’t by having clear rules and boundaries with our children. Early adulthood is a polishing of that framework. If we allow women to believe that they can and should use sex to get what they want, they will learn that sex is the commodity of value for emotional commerce, and it will become a game of debit and deposit.

Women are not children.  And the relationship between sex and emotional “commerce” is not one in which one side is exploited and the other is exploiting.  Sex and emotional connection happen for both men and women.  The simple act of hugging releases hormones that encourage bonding between men and women.  This isn’t a weapon to be used to exploit another person.  It’s the basis of human pair bonding and the means by which we all survive.

hugging

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2230972/Embrace-hugging–good-you.html

If you could wrap your head around the fact that men are actually people, capable of deep emotional connections, you might see that emotions aren’t commerce.  They are what make us, all of us, human.

Sex will become a tool, rather than a union. Sex, then, is not about what it feels like or even what it means in a relationship or to the individuals. It is simply a tool. Further, sexiness is judged only by physical appearance and ability to meet external expectations.

By you, Alyssa. You are the one judging sexiness soley by physical criteria.

This separates women from their own sexuality. Rather than it being a part of them, it is a tool they use. And that can be used against them.

One presumes Alyssa is talking about the version of sexuality that is all about her own pleasure.  If you’re claiming your second sexual awakening as being all about yourself, doesn’t that make your male partner a mere tool for your gratification? I suppose that’s okay, right?

This is the first step in making a woman’s sexuality the property of other people. This is what makes it possible for “sex crimes” to go unreported, victims to be blamed, and continue using sexualized images of women as a way to sell products—cementing our belief that it is a tool of commerce, not part of a woman’s body and soul.

This doesn’t even make sense.  Sex is part of a woman’s body and soul, but if you show her body as sexy, you’re saying it’s not part of her body?

What?

So yes, it’s wrong.

Well, we agree there, Alyssa.

As my friend Hugo [Schwyzer], who has written and lectured extensively on the subject, said to me in a Facebook comment thread:

 And the onus is on the older men, too, to see through that. As a prof who works around sexuality/body image issues, lots of female students who first come to meet me are flirtatious because that’s how they’ve been taught they need to be to be taken seriously.

 They don’t want to fuck me. They don’t usually even want me to want to. What they want is attention, and they don’t trust me (or any other man) to give it for any other reason. After I gently make it clear that I’m absolutely not sexualizing anything, they change. First time in my office hours, it’s miniskirts. A month later, its sweatpants. I take that as a compliment I’m doing my damn job.

Hahahahahahaahahhaaaa!

That’s pretty rich.  This is the guy who openly admits to fucking his students.

http://jezebel.com/5865973/the-real-reason-you-shouldnt-fuck-your-professor

But we also need to redefine sexy. It’s not just a hot body, but it’s also creativity, adventure, kindness, smarts… It’s the whole package. It is everything that we are, not just our collagen and follicles.

No, we don’t need to redefine sexy.  Sexy is already all of those things.  You need to understand that. And then perhaps cultivate some of those other qualities.

Why doesn’t it seem wrong when women our age date men half our age?

For me, personally, it seems weird, but not quite as wrong. I’ve had some very smart, hot and awesome guys in their 20s pursue me in damned near irresistible ways. But I can’t do it, because to me it seems selfish.

Oh, goody.  Let’s get hypocritical.  Men, no younger women!  It’s practically rape!  Women dating younger men?  Oh, okay.

I know that I want a relationship, with someone who is well-past wanting to start a family. Someone who knows who he is and what he wants. I don’t want to delay them from finding what they really want and need.

Well, aren’t you generous?

The sex may be fun—and I can easily convince myself that I’m doing a service to all their future women by teaching them what I know—but ultimately, it just doesn’t feel balanced to me.

Well, how could it feel balanced?  If sex is all about you and you stop for a moment to consider your partner, that might bring his pleasures into play.  Can’t have that.  It has to be all about you!  This is your second sexual awakening!  You need to own it!  It’s yours, and yours alone!

Do all the future women a favor and DON’T teach him anything.

I want to be emotionally and intellectually challenged—and someone younger than me is not likely to offer that. I want someone who can understand where I am in my life—easier if they’re in a similar place. I want to feel truly free and playful and able to explore the world—and someone younger than me who is just sorting out his future isn’t likely to be there. I don’t want to deal with the head games of youth—I didn’t like them the first time, I don’t want them now. And for gods sake, I want a man who has learned how to eat pussy, and as far as I can tell, that takes a good 20 years for them to master.

Recap:

Young men are stupid

And immature

They are incapable of seeing any perspective but their own

They have no sense of fun or playfulness or freedom

They play head games

They suck at eating pussy

Hmmm.  I’m really confused about why Alyssa has such trouble with relationships.  No one wants to go down on her, apparently.  So confusing.

Also, yech.  Anyone else feeling a little nauseous at the thought?

However, as I said earlier, I believe there’s a direct analogy to a guy’s initial sexual awakening in his 20s, and a woman’s autonomous sexual awakening in her 40s. In that way, I think that men in their 20s and women in their 40s are in the same place in terms of their sexuality. I think that’s why it’s less bothersome when the age difference has the woman on top.

Well, at least Alyssa is honest.  She portrays young men as rutting animals with no interest in anything other than a warm hole and then admits she is pretty much the same.  Her sexuality is all about her pleasure and her pleasure alone.

There are obviously many shades of grey. Not all men are the same, not all women are the same. And I truly don’t believe there is any predatory or abusive intent.

Right.  When older men prefer relationships with younger women, who are too stupid and fragile to consent to those rapey relationships, there is nothing predatory and abusive involved.  Nice try at mitigating all the previous garbage you spewed, Alyssa.

fail

Fail.

But I do think we’re socialized to do things without questioning their impact on us or anyone else.

You certainly appear to have been.

Speaking for myself—and observing many of my friends—the early 40s are a golden age for women. We’re hotter, hornier, smarter and more fun than we ever were in our 20s and 30s. It’s because we’ve been through the ringer and come out whole. We’ve been able to define ourselves for ourselves, rather than as we think other people want us to in order to get what we thought we wanted.

Yes, please, speak only for yourself.

I cannot count the number of times I used sex to get what I thought I wanted when I was younger. I did it on “their” terms, not mine. To be the person they wanted, not that I was, because I had no idea who I was. I felt insecure, uncertain, disingenuous, and unstable, but I sure got some skills. Now that I know better, I have all these skills and am a more amazing woman than I ever knew possible.

Oh, big surprise there.  No, you didn’t do anything on “their terms”.  You did it on your own terms, which was to get what you want.  You can’t turn around and blame your partners because you were just straight up abusing them for your own gratification.

You got some skills, did you?  I’ll bet.  That tends to happen when you’ve had sex with more men than you can count.

And for those who value me for all the things that I am, and are lucky enough to know the lover I’ve become, it was worth the wait. No games. No drama. No goal. Just the powerfully awesome autonomous sexuality of a powerful woman, shared freely with a man who values it, to create something greater than the sum of its parts.

No strings attached, because it turns out, I’m not a puppet. I don’t want someone to pull my strings. And just as importantly, I don’t want to pull strings to manipulate anyone else either.

Unless, you know, we’re both into that.

The powerfully autonomous awesome sexuality of a powerful woman with no strings attached.  Hmm.  Isn’t that how the whole article started?  Powerful men want sex with no strings attached, and that’s bad.

Powerful women want sex with no strings attached, and that’s awesome.

I think we should just leave this powerful woman with her autonomous sexuality and no strings attached to her own devices (heh).

Stock up on batteries, Alyssa.

battery

I think you’re gonna need them.

Lots of love,

JB

Comments

  1. says

    Again, great post JB. Here’s the thing that disturbs me about the message Alyssa Royse is sending: If females buy her story, men are made out to be evil, just evil by nature of their desire for a younger woman, and I can easily see how this could make his daughters hate him and very strongly side with the mother. Arrgh makes me shudder. I’m too young to be thinking about these things.

  2. sqt says

    What I see in Royse’s writing is the long, drawn out hope that the whole “cougar” phenomenon is a real thing. I have never, ever bought into that. I can see a young guy, maybe, spending the night with an older woman for the novelty of it- *if* he doesn’t score with a younger woman on the night in question. Buy why would a guy pursue a relationship with an older woman? For a sugar mama? For the sex? Ehhhh, I doubt it.

    Women who waste their best years slutting around don’t usually get do-overs because our childbearing years go pretty quick. I also notice that Royse put a picture of Demi/Ashton up on her post– but I’m not sure why. It doesn’t exactly prove the point that the older-woman/younger-man dynamic is viable in the long term does it?

  3. Alex says

    now i’m glad i listened to comedians back when i did, all that and this itself has helped me find out more about how relationships an marriage should be, to an extent, as i’m still young. though how I managed to figure this shit out by 17 and she’s just now touching on it in her 40’s is a mystery

  4. zykos says

    This is yet another rant by a woman who used (up) her sexuality when she was younger, and is now jealous of all the younger women who do the same when she has lost that ability. It really always comes down to that.

    She seems to be convinced she knows what it’s like to be a man at those ages, and how men think. We could give her a pass for that, but what is really rich is her impression of just how much sexual access young men have.

    Finally, once and for all end the idea that when a young woman is using sex to get money or other benefits from powerful men, she is disadvantaged. Really? She is getting sex with someone she finds sexy AND other benefits. If anything, it’s the powerful man who has to part with cash to obtain what he wants. This flavor of prostitution is not exploitation, it’s paradise (until she gets old, and the guy can find a better deal elsewhere).

  5. says

    You know with there only being FIVE million stay at home mothers out of ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY- FIVE women total in the U.S. . http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb12-ff08.html
    .. this starts looking more like a non-issue and more to do with wishful thinking in the scheme of things when you throw in women’s ‘independence’ coupled with a shriveling economy – probably on the top 2% wealthiest are even doing this anymore.

    Kind of like a non-issue – like female CEOs (yea right- how many are there total? A handful?) or gay marriage- a much talked about and heated issue, but is such a tiny fraction of the population that it’s really just silly to talk so much about with so many huge problems the country is facing.

  6. LJBiFed! says

    Royse also wrote this about her divorce, and how you should get divorced too, because, you know, whatever she does needs to be validated by you.

    http://www.elephantjournal.com/2013/03/why-everyone-should-get-divorced-before-marriage-alyssa-royse/

    And she even gave a TED lecture.
    Again, another plea for your to validate her sex life. She says its up to “us” to make sure she and others know they can have all the kinky BDSM sex they want. Not satisfied to just get on with it, she wants YOUR approval!
    Ironically, the lecture ended on an “anti-climatic” note.

    • Z says

      Kinky BDSM sex is awesome… My question is… why does she have to be a slut to do it? It’s a myth that sexual submissives are all sluts. Many many many are monogamous. The trust required for a deeply bonded D/s relationship almost requires actual love and commitment. Crazy, I know.

      • LJBiFed! says

        My question is: why do any of us have to hear about it, much less give it the “ok”?

        I really don’t want to hear the details of anyone else’s sex life; straight, gay, trans, vanilla, chocolate, sub, Dom, whatever. If, like she says, “it doesn’t concern you so you have no right to judge” then it begs the question, “if we have no right to ‘judge’ because its none of our business, then why is it our business and our right to ‘support’ it?” like she is calling for in this video?

        I mean, just have sex and be done with it already.
        Why make it a United Nations’ Round Table discussion?

        TED and TEDx used to have really interesting, educational and cutting edge videos. But I’ve been seeing more of this nonsensical fluff lately. Truly a dumbing down.

        And here’s how the rest of the world sees Americans’ obsession with talking abou their personal sex lives in public;

  7. LJBiFed! says

    “And for those who value me for all the things that I am, and are lucky enough to know the lover I’ve become, it was worth the wait. No games. No drama. No goal. Just the powerfully awesome autonomous sexuality of a powerful woman, shared freely with a man who values it, to create something greater than the sum of its parts.”

    This woman is not only a MOTHER to her own teenage daughter, she is also step-mother to the two little girls of her latest chump “husband”.
    Can you imagine being raised by a person with these kinds of “values”?
    Or rather, personS in the plural, considering the man has to be some hard kind of fool to bring this craziness into his childrens’ lives!

    More about this shining example of Motherhood here;

    Alyssa Royse is a hot mama in her 40s raising a teenage daughter and two young step-daughters. She’s a veteran entrepreneur, journalist and PR hack who is now working entirely to promote healthy sexual freedom for all humans—because sexual agency is a human right, and also an important part of health and wellness. A popular speaker and guest writer, she can be found most often on her eponymous blog, AlyssaRoyse.com, on her new start-up venture, NotSoSecret.com and as the co-host of the weekly radio show Sexxx Talk Radio on The Progressive Radio Network. (Downloads available on both prn.fm and iTunes.) When she’s not thinking and writing about sex, she’s generally playing with her big, queer, bi-racial family, traveling, reading or at the CrossFit gym sweating. Yes, she would probably love to come speak at your conference, or write something for you, contact info is on her blog. No, she does not want to date you, her dance card is blissfully full.

  8. says

    I have a partner who is 36 years my senior. He’s not wealthy, but he has a great personality and used to have a pretty good body when I met him. I used to have a pretty good body when I met him as well. After 10 years together, the sex may be almost non existent and really just be each of us taking turns in masturbating because our “clocks” are out of sync, but we’re still very much together.

    I guess that’s probably because, if you fall in love with a person for their body alone, it will never last. Looks fade over time. Short of major plastic surgery, you’ll never have the same looks or body shape that you had when you were younger. Personalities very rarely change all that dramatically.

    I find, “sexiness”, yes is somewhat about “looks”. Although, for me, I like a hairy, burly ape of a man (although my partner isn’t hairy at all, and certainly not burly). I assume the same happens for women, there are “types” that you love, but for sensible individuals, not being that “type” exactly, isn’t a deal breaker. Sexiness itself though, is 90% personality. If you’ve got a rocking personality, life is going to be very good for you. If you’re like Alyssa and your personality, frankly sucks, then you’re just going to be left a bitter, sad, lonely ageing individual.

    There’s someone out there for every body type, but nobody wants a bitter old loser with a bad attitude.

    • says

      A “type” is just a romantic fantasy. I’ve always had a thing for the dark, broody types. Colin Firth. Keanu Reeves. Ciarin Hinds. Tall, dark and handsome. The strong, silent type.

      I married a 6’2 blonde haired, blue-eyed golden boy. His feet hit the floor in the morning and he starts chattering. He’s the most social, gregarious person I know. Totally outgoing and if you see a beer in his hand, mark my words, you are gonna get hugged.

      Turns out that when I started to seriously look for a partner and a husband, I like the emotionally open and cheerful type.

      I totally agree that there is someone for everyone, but there is not just ONE person for everyone.

      Statistically improbable. There are lots and lots of people any one person is compatible with and could love and cherish and spend a lifetime with in total happiness.

      There isn’t just one.

      But you pick one. You make a choice. You make a promise.

      And then you’re done.

      • says

        I couldn’t agree more JB. The human race wouldn’t have got far if there were just ONE person for each other and that was your lot.

        Personally, I couldn’t do monogamy, but that’s probably got more to do with being abused as a child, it’s easier to be a slut and to not truly trust anyone than it is to “settle down” and give myself totally to another. I’ve got to admit, I’m totally jealous of people who can do monogamy.

        In saying that though, I don’t think this is Alyssa’s issue. It just sounds like she hates having to compete with younger models. Her anger is misdirected though, as it’s her negative attitude that’s the problem. She needs to give a good hard look at herself a mirror that didn’t once belong to the Wicked Queen out of Snow White.

        What you say in your article is spot on. If you want to be loved, first, you have to love yourself, second you must be confident. If you sound like you doubt yourself and you have a negative attitude, likelihood is, you’ll only ever attract pity fucks.

  9. says

    Of course the greater issue is that the reason we have sex AT ALL is to reproduce & so continue the human race: that’s what ‘sex’ IS. Whether we personally choose to procreate or not, THAT is why we have those urges – & indeed genitals – in the first place. That’s WHY we feel sexual desire.

    And young women are fertile, whereas a 45 year old woman isn’t: which is why men of all ages are physically attracted to 20 year-old girls, & far, far fewer of them are pinning up pictures of grandmothers on their bedroom wall.

    The magnetic reminder men have inside us to seek youth, health & fertility – the signs of which are, at root, what we generally term ‘beauty’ – is really no different on a mass level to why we each individually get hungry for food: we need it to remind us to eat so that we don’t just keel over & die. If we didn’t feel desire for the ‘right’ women, if we weren’t firmly, internally steered towards healthy young things of childbearing age, we’d most likely just go off & fuck rocks & ponies instead, & the whole human race would simply die out, or at least look a hell of a lot more universally like those inbred hillbillies in ‘Deliverance’.

    To give the devil her due, it can be true that a 20 year old male & a 40 year old female may sometimes be relatively compatible in their levels of sexual desire, though such a window seldom stays open for long, & for the male is usually just a pleasant stepping stone on their way into life, whereas for the woman it is more often a last gasp of excitement before forced retirement. And anyway, an 18 year old girl & a man of ANY age are compatible in their ability to reproduce, which is, as I have said, at root what the whole business is about. Amazing how ideology can so obscure the plain facts of nature.

    • LJBiFed! says

      “And anyway, an 18 year old girl & a man of ANY age are compatible in their ability to reproduce”

      Autism in children has been linked to older fathers.

      The healthiest way to reproduce is the way nature intended: when both mother and father are young (at least below 40).

      If our culture was child and family friendly, that’s exactly what everyone would be doing – creating families when their bodies are at peak fitness and fertility and they have the energy to run behind 2 year olds all day and take their kids hiking and on other rigorous outdoor adventures when they are teens.

      Instead, we are wed to this idea of “rugged individualism” where “its all about ME” as exemplified perfectly in Alyssa’s article, which results parents old enough to be GRANDparents to their children.

  10. Mark says

    I call bullshit on women’s sexual awakening being in the 40s, presumably after their (1st) divorce. As I have the luxury of living in the real world (and on a university campus), I happen to know that women in their teens and 20s are at least as adamant about “claiming their sexuality” as men. Her whole premise is nonsense.

    And women use sexuality to manipulate men and get things, “but on their (men’s) terms.” That’s absurd. When you manipulate someone, by definition, you’re doing it on your terms. But no, even when men are being manipulated by women, it’s still the man’s fault. Got it. Damn men, always oppressing vulnerable women by letting them manipulate us.

    • says

      I don’t understand why sexual awakening means trading in your partner.

      Getting a libido boost in my 40s would be awesome, but why can’t I just fuck my husband more?

      I guess I don’t get the association between divorce and women’s sexuality.

      Personally, I think she thought that just because she felt sexy, the world would be her oyster, like it was when she was 20.

      Oh, oops.

      The young ladies have the market cornered. 25 year old hotties get the 25 year old hotties AND the 45 year old ones, too.

      Leaving Alyssa with scraps.

      Too bad about chucking the steak, huh?

      • John says

        Because nature has programmed your DNA for short term monogamy only. Since you can only be impregnated by one man at a time, the cycle is destined to repeat itself after you’ve trapped him. You’ve fulfilled your evolutionary objective. As such, there is nothing left to do but get bored with him, lose your attraction to him, and start the process over again with another man to fulfill nature’s genetic diversity quota. Read Michelle Langely’s “Women’s Infidelity.”

        Sexual variety is part of female erotic desire, just like the male. The difference is that men can impregnate many women at a time, so their urge is to spread their seed, while keeping one emotionally exclusive favorite.

        Women are hypergamous and keep one at a time until they fulfill their goal by getting pregnant and domesticating him, thus getting bored and losing attraction. Then there are women who find promiscuity more appealing, since sleeping with lots of men will maximize the chances of getting impregnated by an alpha. It’s a numbers game, as far as their libido is concerned. Different men’s sperm actually fight each other inside the woman. Read the book “Sperm Wars.”

        Men and women are more alike then you think and there is nothing wrong with them, regardless of the sexual strategy they choose.

        • LJBiFed! says

          “Men and women are more alike then you think and there is nothing wrong with them, regardless of the sexual strategy they choose.”

          Of course there’s “nothing wrong with them” in a culture that is all about adults.

          Now, for a child-centered and family-oriented culture, there is something very, very wrong with adults thinking the world revolves around their sexuality with no thought given at all to the effects on children.

          • John says

            Children’s needs come first. But I can’t see any sexual lifestyle negatively affecting children, as long as everything they need is provided for them. Before the age of 12, children shouldn’t even know what sex is. How does seeing mommy and daddy with lots of friends damage the child? They don’t understand what’s going on anyway. And they shouldn’t. It’s not like they’ll be any sex going on in front of the kids, lol.

          • says

            LBJiFed I assume you’re referring to this:

            “The reality is that children born to unmarried twentysomething parents are three times more likely to grow up with a disorienting carousel of adults coming and going in the home, compared to children born to married parents.

            This kind of carousel, as sociologist Andrew Cherlin notes in his book The Marriage-Go-Round, is associated with higher rates of teen pregnancy, behavioral problems in school, and substance abuse. By contrast, “stable, low-conflict families with two biological or adoptive parents provide better environments for children, on average, than do other living arrangements.”

            In other words subjecting your child to a never ending parade of romantic interests’ can fuck with that child’s head, and harm their long term prospects. In other news falling off of tall buildings can lead to injury or death.

            As a parent you’re supposed to shield your child from your sex life, and romantic relationships. My son doesn’t even know that my girlfriend of one year, or my lover exist. Which is how it should be. But none of that has anything to do with how many people I choose to sleep with.

          • LJBiFed! says

            “As a parent you’re supposed to shield your child from your sex life, and romantic relationships. My son doesn’t even know that my girlfriend of one year, or my lover exist. Which is how it should be. But none of that has anything to do with how many people I choose to sleep with.”

            Every moment spent with some outside woman could be a moment spent with your son.

            I am against single parent dating across the board.

            If a woman is widowed with an infant and sincerely desires to provide her infant with a father, that is the only remotely possible healthy scenario I can imagine for single parent dating. Or a widower with an infant. But he would have to date with an eye toward marriage. Not riding the pussy carousel. Absolutely not.

          • says


            “Every moment spent with some outside woman could be a moment spent with your son.

            Really? Because I care to disagree. The visitation time that the court gave to my ex can’t be spent with my son.

            I can’t spend quality time with him while he’s asleep either. Because he’s sleeping in his room.

            Incidentally these two scenarios are exactly when I ride the “pussy carousel“.

          • LJBiFed! says

            “I can’t spend quality time with him while he’s asleep either. Because he’s sleeping in his room.

            Incidentally these two scenarios are exactly when I ride the “pussy carousel“.

            And when your son awakens in the night to come and find you riding that carousel, which is a probability, then what?

          • says


            “And when your son awakens in the night to come and find you riding that carousel, which is a probability, then what?”

            No it isn’t. There are these little things on bedroom doors called locks. Maybe you’ve heard of them. I’ve been doing this for 7 years, and never had an issue; or even a close call.

            You could make that same exact statement about a married couple, and it would hold just as much weight. Are you seriously claiming that a married couple having sex after the kiddo has gone to bed is fine, but an unmarried couple doing the same thing is harmful? As if the kid won’t care when he walks in on his parents banging, because they have a permission slip from the government?

            Not that it’s an issue for me anyway. I have enough common sense to lock my bedroom door, and not make too much noise when I’m having adult sexy time. At least when the kiddo is sleeping in the house. It doesn’t hurt that my son is a heavy sleeper either.

            Also I noticed that you keep changing your justifications for celibacy:

            First you claimed [correctly] that children seeing their parents parade lovers though the house would mess with their head. I pointed out that a child doesn’t even have to know about the existence of any of your partners.

            So then you claimed that unmarried parents should remain celibate, because doing otherwise could take time away from the kids. I pointed out that getting some poon doesn’t have to take away even one minute of time from your child.

            Finally you claimed that having a sex life could hurt the kids, because they could walk in on you. As if that never happens to married people. Or doing something as simple as locking your bedroom door doesn’t solve the problem.

            I wonder what your next ridiculous justification is going to be. Or you could try something radical: like being honest, and admitting that sex outside of marriage makes you feel icky. Or jealous because it’s not something that you can pull off yourself. Now if you’ll excuse me I think I’ll go. I’ve spent enough time tonight arguing with a socially conservative loon.

          • LJBiFed! says

            “You could make that same exact statement about a married couple, and it would hold just as much weight.”

            – Not the same weight. Parents can explain to their child that mommy and daddy was doing something healthy and beautiful that brought him/her into the world and gave him/her life.

            A kid seeing some strange woman he’s never met before acting in ways he’s never seen with his father, that’s a double trauma right there.

            “Are you seriously claiming that a married couple having sex after the kiddo has gone to bed is fine, but an unmarried couple doing the same thing is harmful?”

            – Yep.

            “As if the kid won’t care when he walks in on his parents banging, because they have a permission slip from the government?”

            — Who said anything about government? Its called “mommy and daddy”. The child’s own parents for godsakes.

            “Also I noticed that you keep changing your justifications for celibacy”

            — Celibacy for thee, not for me. I’m not the single parent here.

            “So then you claimed that unmarried parents should remain celibate, because doing otherwise could take time away from the kids. I pointed out that getting some poon doesn’t have to take away even one minute of time from your child.”

            — Yeah and you’re wrong about that and this too;

            “I can’t spend quality time with him while he’s asleep either. Because he’s sleeping in his room”

            — Ever heard of co-sleeping? One of the best parent-child bonding times. The closeness of daddy’s skin, his smell, pheromones, the cuddling and feeling of security. You know, all that loving, caring, nurturing, family stuff. Shudder! The horrors!

            “I wonder what your next ridiculous justification is going to be. Or you could try something radical: like being honest, and admitting that sex outside of marriage makes you feel icky. Or jealous because it’s not something that you can pull off yourself. Now if you’ll excuse me I think I’ll go. I’ve spent enough time tonight arguing with a socially conservative loon.”

            — Ahhhh yes, a straw man. Because holding the firm opinion that single parents should not date or have sex means that I’m a “socially conservative loon” and that “sex outside marriage makes me feel icky”.

            It couldn’t possibly be that I’ve had plenty of sex outside marriage but don’t think single parents should be having it, could it? Naw. Too much nuance for your brain to compute.

            There will be plenty of time to get your freak on once the boy is a grown man and out of your house. For now, put him first and your libido last.

            (And think of me as a friend of this so-called “western civilization” trying to save it while all the licentious single parents run it into the ground).

            I can’t spend quality time with him while he’s asleep either. Because he’s sleeping in his room.I can’t spend quality time with him while he’s asleep either. Because he’s sleeping in his room.

          • Mark says

            @Mike Hunter:

            No offense, but your argument seems a trifle similar to Md. Royse’s: ‘monogomy doesn’t work for me, so there must be something wrong with monogomy,’ seems to be the sentiment. The fact that it empirically generally seems to work in the long run better than the alternative (be it cheating, open relationships, regular casual sex) for those involved leads me to question why you exalt the alternatives. Sexual monogomy may be ‘unnatura;’ but so is obeying property laws: they usually run counter to the instincts.

            “Or you could try something radical: like being honest, and admitting that sex outside of marriage makes you feel icky. Or jealous because it’s not something that you can pull off yourself.”

            You might consider that some people love their spouses and would rather not betray them. And not everyone who doesn’t do what you do is jeaslous of you. In fact you might find that most people don’t share your priorities. Just a possibility.

            And I don’t see how the ‘icky’ factor is supposed to be in argument against an attitude. Incest ‘makes me feel icky.’ So do public defecation and insider trading. What exactly am I to make of that? I suppose this makes me closed-minded. I’m just not sure where you’re going with it.

          • says

            @LJBiFed!

            You’re a fucking tard. I’m not going to bother responding to all of that, because I’ve already destroyed you’re arguments. At this point you’re essentially just repeating yourself.

            I will say this though: I’ll continue to live my life however I think suits me and my son best. If you don’t like it then tough shit.

          • says

            @Mark

            “Sexual monogamy may be ‘unnatural;’ but so is obeying property laws: they usually run counter to the instincts.”

            The difference is that theft is something done to you against your will. An open relationship is an arrangement agreed upon by all parties.

            The difference between the two is the same as the difference between sex and rape. One is forced upon you against your will; the other requires informed consent!!

          • Mark says

            First, as I often like say, because our instincts drive to behave in certain ways does not mean we should behave in those ways. Sociopaths are more ‘in touch’ with their instincts than anyone else. They are utterly free from ‘social norms’ and whatnot, and their behavior is nonetheless highly damaging to society.

            Secondly, most people naturally (whether they are consciously aware of it or not, and women more than men) confer emotional connotations to sex. ‘No strings attached’ is more an aspiration than a reality for most humans, an almost all women. The ‘open relationship’ model you seem to be espousing is psychologically unrealistic.

            Our social norms, psychological habits, and biological instincts often conflict with one another. When a person gives into his/her instincts and as a result ruins a relationship, he/she may say, ‘it’s societal standards of relationships or the culturally-ingrained expectations of my partner that ruined the relationship; those things should adjust to be in accord with my instincts.’ But someone else could just as easily say, ‘no, you should control you instincts to be more in conformity with societal norms and the culturally-ingrained expectations of your partner.’

            What is natural is not necessarily good; often indeed it is very bad, and should be repressed.

          • Mark says

            Agreed. Some people like to think that ‘as long as the parents are ‘happy,’ the kids will be happy.’ Not really true, but a nice way to rationalize their own hedonism.

          • LJBiFed! says

            Mark, ” Some people like to think that ‘as long as the parents are ‘happy,’ the kids will be happy.’ Not really true, but a nice way to rationalize their own hedonism.”

            Mmmm Hmmm. John’s cluelessness with regards to child and teen psychology, “How does seeing mommy and daddy with lots of friends damage the child? ”

            Really? Was it that long ago you were a child?

            The “carousel of strangers” that The Slate article refers to not only puts the child at possible immediate risk of one of single mommy’s or daddy’s “friends” being a child molester, abuser, killer, sociopath, etc. but even if all those stranger-friends turn out to be normal, non-predatory adults, the constant change and coming and going de-stabalizes the child’s already rocky existence.

            Considering that even adults are effected by their parents’ divorce (when those parents divorce when their kids are grown and gone), the effect on a young person who’s brain is not yet fully developed and is forming neurological patterns more than any other time in his/her life is often quite devastating, even in the case of the most “smooth” and “non-hostile” of divorces.

            It often takes years for a child/teenn, even adult, to process such a thing, and then on top of it the single parents are going to be riding the cock carousel/pussy coaster?!

            You’ve got to be kidding me.

            Have some respect for the life you created.

            Children shut down emotionally after divorce and are hesitant to open up to adults. Then when they DO open up and get attached to a steady boyfriend or girlfriend of their mom’s or dad’s, and that “partner” eventually leaves, which is common, it is the CHILD who is the most heartbroken/devastated/depressed and needs therapy, not the parent!

            We know there’s a lot of data out there about young adults who are jaded by 25 because of relationships gone wrong and lost loves, the concrete jungle of the dating scene, etc which render them cynical about the concept of “eternal love”.

            So imagine if this cycle started for you when you were a mere child, even a toddler – getting attached to the various “friends” of your single parents, and watching them “move on” and disappear from your life one by one.

            No wonder so many kids are on Prozac in this country.

      • Z says

        It’s justifying failure, re-branded as “sexual awakening”. Because saying: “I failed at marriage and probably won’t ever get another good offer because I’m a slut with no interpersonal skills” doesn’t look as good on T-shirts, mugs, and bumper stickers.

        I DO think that there are men out there for older ladies, and don’t think a single woman over 35 or 40 is doomed to singlehood, but it is MUCH harder to find a good mate at that point, and most of these women are bringing more baggage with them than any airport would check. And, like you mentioned, they have to have other qualities… AND have taken care of themselves.

        Given “slut culture” and all the obesity, older women actually have BETTER odds… IF they weren’t buying into obesity and slut culture and expecting men to find that crap attractive. Unfortunately, they are “awakening” and being slutty, too. So… serious learning failure there.

          • Markie Mark says

            Time to call a spade a spade and a slut a slut. True story: Met a great woman a few years ago. She was feminine, understanding, cooked, cleaned, and had a great career. Everything I wanted in a woman. We dated a year before some stuff about her past came out; namely, she slept around before we met. A lot. She mentioned some of her past exploits in the company of our friends as well. As a “liberated woman”, she felt it was her right to “express her sexuality” in this manner. It was also my right to dump her ass.

            It was hard. I really liked this girl and had plans for our future. I thought she could be the mother of our children. I didn’t outright dump her, though, and I didn’t come across as judgmental. I quietly downgraded our relationship: From “love of my life” to “fuck buddy’ to “friendzone”.

            And i’m not a man to pedestalize women. I was under no presumption that she was a virgin, but her lack of shame and willingness to talk about her slutty past in mixed company completely turned me off and shattered what inspiration I got from the relationship. It immediately lowered her value in my eyes, just like when a guy is needy, weak or emotionally promiscuous in the eyes of a woman.

            So, ladies: There’s a reason it’s called “slut shaming”. Go ahead and talk freely about your sexual exploits and get your count way up. Understand, though, that mature, quality men who are looking for more than a pump and dump will not consider you wife material.

          • LJBiFed! says

            Marky Mark: “She mentioned some of her past exploits in the company of our friends as well. As a “liberated woman”, she felt it was her right to “express her sexuality” in this manner.”

            You mean like this? ;)

          • John says

            What is your problem with liberated women? The more sexual she is, the higher her value in my eyes.

            A woman’s power over a man is inversely proportional to the power of her sex drive. Do you want an equal or a nagging slave-master?

          • Z says

            Exactly. But it’s not PC to say that. What some people will never realize is… no matter what is PC, quality men are just not into sluts in general. You might find one in a million who is but… that’s a LOT of sluts competing over that one man. Not odds I’d want to play.

          • John says

            A bunch of sluts competing over me? Pure heaven! Of course, they don’t need to compete. I’ll sleep with them all! :)

          • Z says

            Right, but how many of them are you planning to marry? Women, for the most part want MARRIAGE. They want love and commitment. It’s why women generally who have a ton of casual sex are seen as having low self esteem and are shamed for it because they DO have low self esteem. For the most part… no matter how feminists have tried to socially condition them, women do not LIKE casual sex, because women are biologically wired to pair bond with men they have sex with. Whereas a man can compartmentalize and just go about his business the next day.

            Many many many women have come out writing memoirs and blogs about how the slut culture has ruined their lives and how ashamed and regretful they were of all the casual sex they were “told was okay”. It is not that they were socially conditioned to be ashamed it’s that women by and large do not WANT casual sex. And men by and large do not want to MARRY sluts.

            So you see the problem here? Dude, I don’t WANT to sleep with you. I don’t care what you look like or how much money you have. If I were single the only thing I would be interested in is for you to put a ring on it. Period. Deep down most women feel the same, but they feel it’s shameful to admit that and the whole slut culture is swirling around them so they sleep with men too soon that they want real relationships with hoping he’ll “see them” like really see them, and want to keep sleeping with them and somehow that will turn into love and commitment. But it’s rarely, if ever, the case. And it’s pretty tragic to those women who are left and hurt in the aftermath.

          • says

            Women, for the most part want MARRIAGE. They want love and commitment. It’s why women generally who have a ton of casual sex are seen as having low self esteem and are shamed for it because they DO have low self esteem.

            Amazing how you can speak for all women and that your life experience is the should inform all women about their behavior. All those slutty women must have low self esteem or else they would have acted just like you!

            Of course, experience over the last 20 years or so shows that quite a lot of women, if not most women, like to have sex and like to have plenty of it when they are younger without thought of long-term relationships or marriage. It’s in their late 20s and early 30s when they start to think about marriage that they slow down the frisky-time train.

            Many many many women have come out writing memoirs and blogs about how the slut culture has ruined their lives and how ashamed and regretful they were…it’s that women by and large do not WANT casual sex.

            Well, it’s clear that you don’t (and men are thankful), but don’t project your feelings to all women. I know plenty of women who are just fine with casual sex and generally don’t want to get married. The regretful women writing memoirs generally couldn’t land a man when they finally decided they wanted one because they waited too long, set their standards too high, or were so involved in their careers that they had little to offer men. It wasn’t the casual sex. Free clue: most men are going to have no idea of a woman’s slutty past unless she tells him.

            If I were single the only thing I would be interested in is for you to put a ring on it. Period. Deep down most women feel the same

            Projection, thy name is Z. Most women aren’t going to get a ring on it unless they’re putting out. Of course, deep down, all women want to be you.

            they sleep with men too soon that they want real relationships with hoping … somehow that will turn into love and commitment. But it’s rarely, if ever, the case.

            There was a women a while back who enthusiastically invited me up to her apartment for sex on the first date. We were together 20 years. I’ve seen hundreds of stories and comments over the years that tell a similar tale.

            So you see the problem here? Dude, I don’t WANT to sleep with you. I don’t care what you look like or how much money you have.

            That’s okay, Z. We don’t want to sleep with you, either. We don’t care what you look like. It’s mainly the shitty attitude that’s a turn off…

          • Z says

            Reading Comprehension Fail.

            Not once did I speak for ALL women. I said

            MOST women. And it’s proven by the attitudes and regrets of… drumroll… most women. Dude, take a statistics class. Holy crap.

            Also I don’t judge “sluts” who actually ARE just wired that way to like a lot of casual sex. Fine. But… they are not the majority. You’re deluded if you think that they are.

            Most women who are super “slutty” are young college girls and so many of them are crying after their encounters thinking that it was going to turn into a relationship and that those men would love them. So many of these girls just want love. I’m sorry, but it’s the truth.

            And the fact that you had a 20 year relationship with a woman who slept with you on the first date has nothing to do with the odds of that actually happening. It’s like the Pretty Woman Delusion of some nice, rich man, rescuing a prostitute and loving and caring for her. Dude, whatever.

            If you want sluts or to be a slut or whatever… hey… knock yourself out, what do I care. But most women want love and commitment and don’t want to have a ton of casual sex because they have some self respect and they aren’t wired for it. Not sure why biological realities of most gender-typical women offends you, but whatever.

            I’m sick of this attitude where normal, natural female feelings is somehow prudish, wrong, or a “shitty attitude”. I love that you think women who want love and commitment and who don’t want to sleep around, have a “shitty attitude”. Right, it’s so “shitty” of me not to put myself at risk for pregnancy and STDs with a man who doesn’t care a bit about me. Wow, I’m such a bitch for that.

            I also can’t imagine why the hell I would care that you didn’t want to sleep with me. I’m MARRIED. I’m not on the market. If I was, a man who thought about getting off with me and dumping me instead of loving me and committing to me would be the last thing I would want near me.

            I don’t recall saying women couldn’t have sex before marriage, but I do think it’s foolish for a woman who wants love and commitment to have sex before a man is emotionally attached to her. She’s gambling otherwise. Not every woman thinks riding your cock is THAT big of a thrill that she is willing to make that gamble. But you go ahead and keep playing with the women who throw caution to the wind.

          • LJBiFed! says

            In my case its not “slut shaming” but rather bad parent shaming.

            If they don’t have kids and never plan on having them, then maybe all the sleeping around and cock carousel/pussy coaster riding doesn’t matter.

          • John says

            Why are they disgusting???

            To me, virgins are disgusting. I need a woman who is as enlightened as I am, not to mention experienced (i.e. someone who knows when and when not to use her teeth). To me, sluts are the only women worth my time.

            If you disagree, then you owe it to your women to be sexually conservative in your past as well, lest you become a hypocrite.

          • Z says

            And, if you can separate sex and love and were slutty and liked it, then more power to you. I don’t find people who actually ARE wired that way “disgusting”, but it is patently disgusting all the women with no self esteem who regret their “number” for years and years to pathetically search for love by spreading their legs for any man who will dive in.

            I just think it’s a minority of women, just like John, Mr.-I-find-virgins-disgusting, is not in the majority of men.

          • Z says

            They are disgusting because they have no self esteem or respect for themselves. As I posted a few comments up… whatever you’ve been told, most women do not WANT to have casual sex. It’s not that we are all repressed and the patriarchy is keeping us from expressing our true natures. We want love and commitment.

            So the vast majority of sluts are not sluts because they really deep down are into casual sex. They want to be loved. And it is pretty pathetic and unenlightened (to borrow a term from you.)

            That you find virgins disgusting really puts you in a minority. Experience is not something you need to gain through 40 different sexual partners. The fact that you think it is makes me question your teaching skills. A virgin is just as capable as learning from ONE man who is a good teacher as from multiple men.

            And here are the benefits you get from a virgin: No babies with other baby daddies, someone who has some self control and is more likely to be faithful to you, and someone who doesn’t have any STDs. Yeah, those are horribly tragic outcomes.

            Also, virgins are not prudes. I’m a freak and my mind was JUST as freaky back when I was a virgin. I’m also not saying women have to be virgins. There is a middle ground between virgin and slut.

            And I HAVE been sexually conservative. I am on my second marriage. I had only slept with one other man (my first husband) when I married my second. He and I have been married for 11 years. And we’re happy and love each other. Oh, and I still put out. Shock, gasp. How he wants, when he wants.

            I hope you’re happy with your sluts and don’t catch something from them. And newsflash… condoms don’t protect against everything. I expect a herpes report from you soon.

          • LJBiFed! says

            You mean you haven’t yet watched her video on youtube that linked to below?!

            You’ve got some catching up to do.

            Sit down and have a drink first.

          • Mark says

            What a pile of horse shit. This Royse woman is falling all over herself to rationalize her failures. She begins with an obvious lie. She has nothing but scraps of anecdotal ‘evidence’ flying stubbornly in the face of every sound statistic, social scientific study, and I suspect the personal experience of most people.

            Marriages that work the first time are the best marriages by every objective measure of the quality of marriage, including the happiness of the participants and the lives of the children reared therein.

            And second marriages are even more likely to fail than the first ones (around 2/3 fail I think). Third ones? Close to 3/4. in other words, if you’re going to get it right, you’ll probably get it right the first time. What divorcees (usually, that is) should be told is ‘you screwed up; it’s not all someone else’s fault; there’s something wrong with you; you need to change.’ But alas, genuine self-improvement is not in vogue these days. Instead people like Royse just tell themselves they’ve improved with age; unfortunately, you can live a lifetime without improving one iota; it takes more than just years to get better at life.

            This Royse woman is acting as though stupidity were not merely a virtue, but a science. (Thought I’d throw in a ‘Flight of the Phoenix’ reference; the old version of the film was much better than the new one; just thought I’d mention that)

          • says

            Actually, she describes the process my ex and I went through, the only differences being that while sex had dwindled drastically, we weren’t like Royse in that we didn’t develop a revulsion to physical contact. And we didn’t have kids. We’re still friends. For example, she got custody of the car, but I have visitation rights. We also could have split up our share of Mets season tickets, but we still go to baseball games together.

            Of course, after taking the Red Pill I realized that my increasing betatude over many years of marriage could have been reversed and the marriage probably saved. But I can’t say I’m unhappy, since I’m dating regularly and enjoying the variety…

  11. LJBiFed! says

    JB: “This comes back to you thinking that men are pigs who only care about a firm ass and a nice rack. That men will accept any kind of bitchy, manipulative, stupid, irritating, emotionally dysfunctional woman as long as she looks good.

    If that were true, you wouldn’t have any trouble getting dates, now would you? I mean, for 40 something, you’re in good shape, but that’s not enough is it?”

    — According to her articles she doesn’t have a hard time getting dates. She was married, had a child, divorced. Post-divorce, according to this article itself, ” I’ve had some very smart, hot and awesome guys in their 20s pursue me in damned near irresistible ways. But I can’t do it, because to me it seems selfish.”

    Obviously the younger men who pursued a middle aged single mom who self-describes as,
    “… a veteran entrepreneur, journalist and PR hack who is now working entirely to promote healthy SEXUAL FREEDO for all humans—because SEXUAL AGENCY is a human right, and also an important part of health and wellness…..as the co-host of the weekly radio show SEXXX Talk Radio on The Progressive Radio Network. (Downloads available on both prn.fm and iTunes.) When she’s not thinking and writing about SEX, she’s generally playing with her big, QUEER, bi-racial family, …”

    …. do so because they want Teh Sex.
    She built a career up for herself thinking, writing, having and advocating for SEX! So yeah, I’m sure a few young, horny and desperate dudes who can’t get it from young women their own age would “pursue” her for it. And only it. Its not like they’d actually want to have a long term relationship with her, build a life with her, and become a second father to her daughter (the unfortunate child).

    She’s not single now either. She got “married” (whatever that means to her) for the 2nd time to a divorced single dad. Bingo! We’ve got 2 winners here, folks!

    Reading between the lines of her text where she says; “I have, more than once, had sex with people who I probably shouldn’t have just because I got carried away and it seemed fun at the time. It’ll probably happen again.”

    It’ll probably happen again?!?!?!
    Wait, didn’t you just get MARRIED again? And you’re already planning ahead to have sex “with people who I probably shouldn’t have just because I get carried away and it seems like fun” !!!!!????

    And her already pre-planned justification for infidelity comes in the very next sentence….”None of us are perfect. None of us are going to be perfect. It’s okay. The learning curve is long, hard and slow, (oh, come on, I had to.) But being open and talking about it is the best way to learn.”

    ?!?!?!?

    Anyway, reading between all the above text and her “work” in the “Sex Industry Lite for Upper Middle Class Progressive White Yuppies” as exemplified in the TED video…. I’d wager she has one of those “open marriages”. In which case I’d ask: what’s the point in getting married at all?

    • Z says

      For some reason your last paragraph reminds me of a video I saw of this feminist who was critiquing the “sexism” in video games… She was on this stage at a conference or something and said: “I’m a pop culture critic. I am a feminist. And I’m a woman.” Well, that’s at least 2 things that qualify her for absolutely nothing, but the fact that she felt compelled to stand on a stage and TELL people that she’s a woman, pretty much seals that her gender doesn’t qualify her for anything, either. At least not in her case.

  12. says

    I think that men in their 20s and women in their 40s are in the same place in terms of their sexuality…the early 40s are a golden age for women. We’re hotter, hornier, smarter and more fun than we ever were in our 20s and 30s.

    This is the nut. The center of the delusion.

    The tl;dr version of her piece is WTF? I’m middle-aged? And ditched my husband? This is my last chance!! Where are all the hot men lining up to fuck me?? Why the hell are they hitting younger, hotter, tighter?? I’m, uh…I’m, well…I’m hot! Really, I am. Hey, I give awesome head! If those guys won’t fuck me, they’re assholes. Young pussy women are vapid idiots who use men by screwing them silly and they’re too stupid to consent, too, so there! I know, because that’s how I was! (Did I say that one out loud?). Hey, guys, really, I’m a “hot mama” and will rock your world! C’mon, please? Pretty please. No string, promise! Pinky swear. Did I mention I give the awesomest blowjobs?

    Not to slag on her appearance, but from the TED video posted, she’s hit the wall. No wonder she’s shaming young women and the mid-40s guys who won’t schtupp her.

    I don’t know where she got the idea that it takes 20 years for a man to master the art of eating pussy. I got my certification in cunning linguistics in my early 20s to much enthusiastic response, if not outright applause…

    • gwallan says

      The cunning liguist. I haven’t heard that expression for years. Recommend not using it around Adria Richards. Did once play for a basketball team nicknamed the “Lingus” thus enabling our supporters to cheer “carna Lingus”.

  13. GrimGhost says

    Disclosure: I don’t have enough looks, or wealth, or charm to bed a young hottie. So what Royse is talking about is a “choice” that I’ll never get to make.

    That said–

    Let’s suppose that I’m George Clooney, and can bed a woman of any age. Why would I want to bed “stomach-rolls” Royse with her fatty arms, her sense of entitlement, a divorce in her history, and her firm belief that all men are brutes?

    This woman _reeks_ of “entitlement” mentality.

    If I were George Clooney, she would offer _nothing_ I want.

    I forgot: She gives great blowjobs. That’s supposed to count more than everything else?

    • Z says

      Here’s what I don’t get… older women complain about men getting younger women… but, like you say, it’s not like EVERY man CAN get younger women anymore than any women can get a rich guy. Rich/powerful guys more often can get younger women. Young, beautiful women can more often get rich guys. But women seem DEEPLY DEEPLY bitter about it.

      What I don’t understand is… if they are so “independent” and “awesome”, why don’t they get rich on their own and then find one of those men who isn’t rich and powerful enough to have the currency for a younger woman. Because they are hypocrites, that’s why. It’s okay for them to want rich guys and never be satisfied with a man who isn’t, but it’s not okay for a rich guy to use his currency to secure a younger, more beautiful woman.

      Fail.

      I also think this blogger/author/whoever she is writing all this crap is in heavy denial. She is NOT as sophisticated and full of self-esteem as she pretends. If she was… like JB said, she would have cultivated some qualities in her life besides arrogance, selfishness, and jealousy.

      • gwallan says

        “older women complain about men getting younger women… but, like you say, it’s not like EVERY man CAN get younger women anymore than any women can get a rich guy.”

        That those women are older does not alter their hypergamous instincts. The ONLY men they really notice ARE the ones who can “get” the younger women.

        • Z says

          True, but it’s pretty sad because they won’t allow the man his instincts. Could this be maybe why it’s better for a woman to MARRY? There actually ARE good men who will stay with you and love you once you pass your prime.

  14. says

    I could only read half, but I feel I got the message. The part about men being denied of their emotions is superb, i think that’s a result of some women/girls not being able to read between the lines of our actions/things we say/body language. What’s more is other men deny themselves and other men of their emotions, but you’re right, it’s odd how that happens when there’s eons of content out their made from emotional men. I use to be the singer in band, even I have contributed.

  15. Mik says

    JB, i posted this entry on her article. Turns out someone else already did. Heh. Now i wait. That was a comprehensive dismantling. Classic JB.

    On a lighter note. This paragraph hits the nail on the head: “Forget about your own pleasure. Don’t give it one moment’s thought. Focus entirely on his pleasure, and his alone. Let YOUR pleasure be HIS.”

    Nietzsche once said: ““The happiness of man is: I will. The happiness of woman is: he wills. ‘Behold, just now the world became perfect!’—thus thinks every woman when she obeys out of entire love.”

    Best Wishes,

    Irfan.

    • LJBiFed! says

      Nietzsche once said: “The happiness of man is: I will. The happiness of woman is: he wills. ‘Behold, just now the world became perfect!’—thus thinks every woman when she obeys out of entire love.”

      Well, obviously this is biased since Nietzsche was a man. Women are individuals with wills and aspirations of their own, which may or may not involve a man.
      The world will become perfect when we respect individual autonomy and not seek to impose our wills on others.

      In other words: The world was never perfect, nor will it ever be. There is no Utopia

      Even my very stringent policies with regards to single parent dating are my personal opinions. I have never tried to impose this will on the single parents around me. However if the topic comes up I do offer my opinion and the reasons why, citing the data. A few of my single parent friends, seeing the logic and wisdom in it, have duly jumped off the cock carousel/pussy coaster and started investing the time and energy they would otherwise spend dating into their kids, as it should be.

  16. TMG says

    A woman’s body undergoes changes as she heads towards menopause which can inspire a higher libido AND she has much less sexual market value so therefore average guys in their 20’s look SO HOT. Meanwhile, the guys are happy for some action.

    I have a woman at work 10 years older than me drenching me with compliments and obvious cues of womanly desires. Honestly she looks good and she has a good sense of humor, but i don’t date co-workers.

  17. Luke says

    Related: There is something insidious and horrible that starts to kick in around age 34-35 for women conceiving children. It is universal for all women, cannot be tested for to avoid, and cannot be avoided. Basically, there is a roughly even trade off between advancing genetic maternal age after that point and reduced vitality and life expectancy in daughters. So, if a woman aged 39 (when the ovum is extracted) conceives a daughter, about 6 years, or 10%, is taken off any daughter’s lifespan and health. At 44, it’s about 10 years, or 15%. And, it’s not “they just die at 72 instead of 82, with everything else the same until then”. All through those daughter’s lives, their health, their vitality, their vigor, their life expectancy are reduced at every age. This is not a good thing to do to darling little babies you’d want to put in dresses and put bows in their hair.

    Please, please, please, if you’re a woman, have all your children before age 30, if at all possible.

    • Mark says

      Both my brother and I were coneived when my mother was in her mid-30s, and we’re actually healthy. But then again my parents’ family’s have excellent genes with respect to life expectancy.

      Generally, yes, earlier is better. I once heard a genetics professor tell the women in the class (half jokingly) that the optimal time to have children to avoid them having genetic defects was now. I looked around nervously to see if a feminist would crawl out of the woodwork to have a fit; thankfully none did.

      So while some women (like my mother) can pull of havin children in their mid to late 30s, it is indeed around that age when you’re beginning to push it. And one should never count on being able to have kids in their 40s. many women have been misled into believing doing so was pretty standard and so they spent 20 years building their careers only to find that they couldn’t have kids. Really, the way women who wan both should do it is to start their families as soon after completing their education as possible, then, once the kids begin to reach an independent age, start considering career options. I know of women who went back and got their MDs after raising kids and are now successful doctors, for example.

      • Kai says

        Part of the problem is that you don’t know how easy it will be to conceive until you try. Some women can get pregnant just fine at 35. Others start trying at 26, and take 3 years. If they too started at 35, it’s probably not going to happen.
        Bottom line – if children is something you definitely want to happen in your life, it needs to be a priority.

  18. says

    Ms. Royse wrote:
    And for gods sake, I want a man who has learned how to eat pussy, and as far as I can tell, that takes a good 20 years for them to master.

    Golly, I guess her you-know-what must be as sour as her attitude.

  19. Moses says

    JudgyBitch, reading this post felt like watching a basketball star shoot 20 swish 3-pointers in a row in a clinch game.

    The verb it most calls to mind? Eviscerate. Roissy, move over!

  20. Days of Broken Arrows says

    I can’t believe I’m going to respond to her blow job comment, but here goes:

    “Sex, like most things, gets better with practice. I know that I give a better blowjob at 41 than I did at 31, or 21.”

    No, she’s wrong. Because even if her technique has improved, the quality of a BJ is contingent on how hot the woman is who gives it. So a so-so BJ by a scorching hot 24-year-old beats a “professional” one by an average 40-year-old. In fact, unless the woman passes a certain looks threshold, I’d guess the man would have problems keeping things “going.” Hence the market for Viagra.

    • says

      Seriously? So quality of blowjob is dependant on a woman’s looks? So i give my best Bj as a so-so 20 something and I just
      shouldn’t bother? or if i can give a good BJ at 40, because i am not so good looking, i should leave it?

      Seeing as only a mere 4-5% of females are smoking hot and 24, should the rest of us not bother, so that is why Viagra is around, because
      men got so used to having constant blowjobs from their hot 24 year old girlfriends, that OMG AGED!!! and became there wives….

      oh, you’re being sarcastic. Sorry, there is a time difference.

      • Days of Broken Arrows says

        If you can’t understand the fact that men get erections seeing good-looking women, you need a refresher course in biology. Men respond instinctively to hot women. The penis does not lie. Do you think men get excited seeing Kathy Bates or someone like that? No, and this is something women need to realize. Why is men’s biology automatically deemed “bad” by feminists and “sinful” by the church-types.

        Men’s attraction for women is at its height when women are young which is why grandmothers advised their offspring to “snare” a man while they could.

        Nature did play sort of a trick on men, though, which benefits older women. When you stay with a woman for a long time, you still see the woman as she was when you were initially attracted to her (most of the time, anyway). This is why long-married couples can have great sex lives. So all hope is not lost for older women.

        But this is also why the woman this post is about would be highly unlikely to excite few men — we see her as she is today with no memory of when she was at her hottest. And all the “skills” in the world will not magically turn her into a twentysomething in a sundress, no matter what feminists want you to believe. In fact, her clinical attitude towards sex is sure to turn off all but the most desperate men.

        • LJBiFed! says

          “Nature did play sort of a trick on men, though, which benefits older women. When you stay with a woman for a long time, you still see the woman as she was when you were initially attracted to her (most of the time, anyway). This is why long-married couples can have great sex lives. So all hope is not lost for older women.”

          Nor is hope lost for older men. A woman also wears marriage goggles and will see the “husband of her youth” when she looks into the old, wrinkled, haggard eyes of her now husband. (I’ll refrain from describing what his dangly bits might look like naked, bleh).

          You are right that what Alyssa Royse misses is in all her “I’m a 40 something hot mama: fit, fabulous, awesome and I don’t need no man” is if she has to announce to the world that she is “hot” – she most likely is not (and video and photo evidence prove just that), and no amount of blow job skills can make up for a shrew like personality.

          However, take the same average to below-average looking middle aged Alyssa Royse, put her in a loving marriage with a husband whom she treats well and who treats her well, and there will be at least 1 man on the planet whom does indeed does think she’s the cat’s meow.

          Then, she wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if any other man found her hot or not, because the man she loves deeply and shares a life with DOES.

          Intimate pair bonding has a way of building genuine self confidence like that.

  21. says

    Whoever wrote this is a rockstar. It says many of the things that I, as a man, would like to say, but am patently so disinterested in the potential backlash associated with my gender that I wrote a slightly more measured response to the original article where I first saw it on elephantjournal.com. Rather than expect you go there to read it, I’ve reposted it here.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~
    There’s a lot in this article that merits a response. Some because it is reasonable. Much because it’s not. When I first started reading this, I got about half way through before I started skimming it. As a man, it made me angry. As a thinker, it’s clearly dripping with logical fallacies. It appeared to be a polemic masquerading as an opinion determined to be accepted as truth. So I took a breath, backed away from the keyboard, listened to my own listening and re-engaged. Apologies in advance for the length of this, but there seemed no way to express these thoughts more concisely. Because of the length, I have to break it up into several comments.

    PART ONE

    All meaning is contextual. I have no doubt that the world the author grew up in (late sixties / early seventies) was still a fiercely patriarchal world (despite the necessary rise and rise of the feminist movement). To suggest that the past twenty years bears much more than a passing resemblance to the twenty that preceded it, strikes me as an abject denial of reality. The world is different and we – men and women both – are different as as consequence. A woman born in 1990 has grown up in a world in which, despite the multitude of insidious ways in which women continue to be marginalised, she (by and large) has the right to vote for who she wants, be educated about what she wants, make her own choices about her own body, decide where, when and with whom to engage, work where she wants, live where she wants, travel where she wants, easily gain access to finance, and generally know far more about the past, present and future than any other adult generation before. Most women I meet in their twenties are far more self-assured than most women in their forties would report as being back then.

    That doesn’t make it universally true, of course, but it is a common experience I hear from folks in their forties talking about folks in their twenties.

    There’s much less need to fight for ones right, to demand to be heard, to insist upon being taken seriously (yes, the need is still there, stipulated). There are far greater protections in law and in social normalising then there were for a woman growing up in the seventies. Many more women in their twenties grew up with self-empowered, educated, fiscally self-reliant, politically active and socially connected mothers than most women in their forties now could claim. To labour the point, it’s not the same – and it’s entirely unreasonable to use one’s self as a data point to make sweeping generalisations about this current generation of women. As a man in my early forties, it’s equally unreasonable for me to imagine that I have my finger on the pulse of that generation of women either.

    There may well be elements of truth to the authors contention about men my age; it’s challenging, however, to wade through the polemic, and a real exercise in self-awareness to not jump at the myriad of baited hooks this article is peppered with. It’s written in a way that, not surprisingly, evokes a strong response in the men who’ve commented. I want to call bullshit on the author, but there is definitely much in here that demands consideration (it’s just unfortunate that the reader is expected to wade through so much unsubstantiated, ill-informed, self-referential rhetoric to find it).

    Here’s what not only I, but many of the men my age who have taken their own process with a little more mindfulness would likely say given that this sort of discussion is neither new nor particularly evolved. Men have been accused of much worse – often with good reason – and have specifically been called out as assholes by the women of their generation for millennia. Yawn. We’re bored, and unilaterally wish that instead of grinding axes you were using them to cut dead wood.

    Again, it’s possibly a fair characterisation of some men, but its baseless to assume that all men who date much younger women are either latent abusers, party to some unconscious paradigm of suppression or out and out manipulators. Beyond that it’s unnecessary and completely counterproductive to what I’m hallucinating is the author’s intent (to make us aware that, perhaps sometimes, this is, in fact, exactly what is going on).

    PART TWO

    So, here’s a break down of what’s wrong with this article (followed by a breakdown of what’s right):

    1. Everybody wants something; it goes with being human; if you don’t know what you want, or don’t know how to ask for it clearly, then you manipulate in order to get it; almost everybody does it, whether we want to or not
    2. Claiming that most people in their 20’s don’t really know themselves is matronising (no, it’s not a real word, but it bloody-well oughta be!). I’m confident that most folks in their twenties reading elephantjournal know themselves well enough to not even express outrage at such an asinine assertion
    3. Men like having sex. Period. So do women. Most people (I believe) would like to be having more sex, more often, with more people. What is each individual looking for in that experience? Who-the-fuck knows and, frankly, who the hell cares? We’re all looking for different things based on an incalculable number of variables. There will always be patterns to be discerned (including those the author points out). Some may well point to a social malaise that would benefit from interrogation. Others won’t
    4. Men, by and large, enjoy having sex with younger women. Not always, not exclusively. But they do enjoy it. Why? Well, far be it for me to take up the torch for men everywhere but I suspect that it’s because they are (often) more physically vibrant, less hung up about life, have more available time, are more relaxed about sex, often don’t have kids, or careers or weighty obligations and don’t view chivalry as an affront to their ‘she-ness’ (thanks Californication) but as an expression of care. They view sex as a playground – and why the fuck not? Who decided it all had to be so goddamn serious anyway? Ask a bonobo what they think (of course they won’t tell you, they’ll just welcome you to the party!)
    5. There is no consistent timeline; the author goes from talking about ‘women in their twenties’ to coming ‘into our sexuality in our late teens and early twenties’. I agree that there is a substantive difference between being 18 and being 28. If you’re going to make generalisations, at least make them consistent; now I don’t know if I agree or disagree with you because you just redefined the parameters of your argument
    6. I’m delighted that divorced women in their forties are claiming their sexuality for themselves for the first time; it’s awesome; it’s exciting, enabling and, quite honestly, as sexy-as-hell; just don’t let your own unbridled enthusiasm for your new claimed power make you so arrogant that you ignore the possibility that women in their late teens – through late twenties might have a lot to teach you about sex and sexuality as well; youth ocassionally have good cause to be ‘arrogant’
    7. I’ve had amazing sex – heart-connected, intellectually-stimulated, physically mind-blowing sex – with women in their forties. It’s been a while since I had sex with a woman in her twenties, but from what I hear, it can be just as good; ultimately, you bring yourself to the experience, and you gain more from what you give than from what you try to take; isn’t that always the way?
    8. Consent is consent. You can’t manufacture a new form of consent called ‘true consent’. We all give our consent to the experiences we have in our lives based, again, on an incalculable number of variables.
    9. It’s a weak choice for a man to go for the younger, hotter, more contemporary, more energetic, more stimulating women? Really? Sex isn’t the NBA. It’s not a competitive sport. But it should be fun. Who wouldn’t choose the more fun option if it were available to them?
    10. The dominant message for women is that they are only as valuable as they are sexy – maybe. It’s undeniably a strong message, but the truth is that young men are suffering too. Boys are beginning to drop out of more academic pursuits because girls are getting so much of the attention. One of the core messages that young men hear in the media today is that women are better than them – they are smarter, more capable, more balanced, more hopeful, more responsible, MORE MORE MORE than men. When was the last time you saw any major social mission focused on the education, employment, self-awareness and support structures for young men? Boys are learning that they are, in every way that seems to matter, less than girls
    11. the double standard on slamming men but not holding women to the author’s imagined standard of healthy sexual behaviour with younger partners is a mote in god’s eye

    PART THREE

    This is what’s right – or at least reasonable to assert:
    1. Sex gets better with practise – absolutely
    2. The strings are attached – absolutely; as they are for pretty much everybody in one way or another; it’s not the healthiest way to engage, but as soon as anybody says ‘i want this’ they’re placing conditions; wouldn’t it just be simpler to say ‘i’ll love you the best i can, for as long as i can, for as long as it feels good for both of us’?
    3. Young men are (often) not paying attention to the reality of their lovers’ experience; young women aren’t either
    4. If you’re looking for hot, NSA sex, older men (typically) won’t find that with older women
    5. We want equals; and hot sex – damn straight – who doesn’t want that? Please respect me as your equal and permit me to exercise my own intelligence and self-awareness to determine who is mine
    6.There is a very real danger of women unconsciously commodifying their sexuality and using it transactionally rather than embracing it as a part of themselves; the same, unfortunately, is increasingly true of men.
    7. We need to redefine sexy; amen
    8. Women in their forties (now) are hotter, hornier, smarter and more fun than they ever were in their twenties and thirties. Yes!

    If you’ve made it this far, congratulations. It’s not so much a ‘comment’ as a response. The final thing I will say is that the piece of this article that most resonated as truthful, and that made the entire article palatable was, unfortunately, buried at the end of the article and, punctuated, most regrettably, in the post-script. It’s the author’s roar, her unrestrained declaration of self – one, I suspect, that resonates for all of us, regardless of gender, or age or experience:

    ” … for those who value me for all the things that I am, and are lucky enough to know the lover I’ve become, it was worth the wait. No games. No drama. No goal. Just the powerfully awesome autonomous sexuality of a powerful wo/man, shared freely with a wo/man who values it, to create something greater than the sum of its parts … None of us are perfect. None of us are going to be perfect. It’s okay. The learning curve is long, hard and slow; but being open and talking about it is the best way to learn.”

    As a powerfully autonomous sexual man, wedded to a love that is greater than myself, I hear you. Thank you. Deep gratitude for sharing your self with us, for providing an opportunity to be heard and for stimulating a healthy enquiry. Most importantly, congratulations on your marriage!

  22. Rob says

    “So Alyssa, fuck you with your ugly stereotypes about men. That’s my son you’re talking about. My husband. My brothers. My friends. You may have been treated like meat by all the men you slept with in your twenties, but that says far more about you than them.”

    You are a wonderful woman. I constantly hear from feminists the imperative that we acknowledge that all women should be treated the same way we would treat our mothers, sisters, or daughters, but I almost never hear the reverse.

    Your writing never ceases to entertain, and I thank you very much for the work you do spreading your message.

  23. gone fishing dont cook tea says

    Every time i read one of your articles i adore you a little more. As for Alyssa she is a walking advert for why men prefer younger women. Despite being the billboard herself she seems unable to read it. Truly comical in a tragic fashion. I would like to say that I do have many older women friends who are just lovely and she does not in any way represent the whole demographic but she does demonstrate the part of this demographic that men avoid like the plague.

    Of course it was all peachy when she was at the peak of her sexual value but now that the men her own age she ignored at that age have a higher SMV than her its an outrage!

    Truly lolworthy and you did a fabulous job of refuting her *bows*

Leave a Reply