Why don’t we have a Dumb Fucking Whore Registry? Now that would be justice.

18 Mar

Trigger warning:  holy shit, this pisses me off.

boys

So two of the boys involved in the Steubenville “rape” case were found guilty and will now face imprisonment and a lifetime membership on the Registered List of Sex Offenders. That is a tragedy for the boys, for justice and for the victims of actual rape.  As we go through this case, ask yourself who benefits from this verdict, and why.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/17/justice/ohio-steubenville-case/index.html?hpt=hp_inthenews

Most of the facts in this case seem relatively incontrovertible:  a young woman, who was not part of the regular social group, went to a football party, in a town mad for football, got trashed out of her mind, voluntarily accompanied two of the biggest football stars to another party, passed out and then got treated like a whore.

http://judgybitch.com/2012/12/18/a-shit-faced-drunk-girl-a-football-star-and-a-vigilante-feminist-the-makings-of-a-fairy-tale/

In a moment of mind-numbing stupidity, the boys opted to film their “assault” on the girl, which involved fingering her while she was passed out.  Rather than leave her in a ditch somewhere, they carried her around to different locations, none of which had any adult supervision.

What the fuck, Steubenville?  Where are all the goddamn grown-ups?

The law in Ohio states that ANY penetration, however slight, constitutes rape.  Let’s start there.  Comparing a stupid, drunk, helmet-chasing whore who gets fingered while passed out to an actual rape victim is completely and utterly absurd.

This is rape:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/28/indian-gang-rape-victim-dies-hospital_n_2377717.html

So is this:

http://haysfreepress.com/2012/05/07/florida-man-extradited-in-hays-county-brutal-rape-case/#axzz2NtuPnHlh

And this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_Jogger_case

Comparing those cases, or any of the other truly brutal rapes to what happened in Steubenville is comparing this:

fender

To this

crash

Anyone who stood around moaning that the slight fender bender they got into at the mall is comparable to a fiery, multiple car crash on the interstate would immediately be dismissed as the most self-absorbed narcissist lacking any kind of empathy or perspective.  We have a word to describe people like that:  we call them assholes.

Now, the girl in Steubenville is claiming she didn’t actually drink all that much, and someone must have drugged her!  Toxicology tests?  NEGATIVE.

Oh my!  You mean she’s a lying little tramp desperately trying to avoid ANY culpability for what happened to her?  Well color me shocked.

Defense attorneys say a toxicology report performed a day later showed no signs of drugs.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/steubenville-rape-trial-witness-testifies-recording-alleged-assault/story?id=18738378

The most telling thing about this whole case is that multiple people saw the little tramp passed out and carried about by a couple of douchey guys, and make no mistake, those boys behaved shamefully.  Part of having the adulation and admiration that comes along with being a small town football star is not to abuse that power when the little gold-digging status whores come a-calling, and those boys failed.

Punishment > Crime

That girl had no friends at the party, not one person had enough respect for her to step in, she was not part of the social tribe and there is no way in hell she did not know that.  She went to that party to nab herself a football player, and lo and behold, the football players didn’t really like such an obvious grasp at their glory.

Find yourself another wagon to hitch to, little star.

wagon

The saddest thing is that the boys sobbingly admit that they ruined her life! They are accused of having “no moral code”!  Oh, and the girl had an impeccable one, did she?

RUINED HER LIFE?!?!

Are you fucking kidding me? They are going to jail!  They will be registered sex offenders!  They are convicted criminals! One night of behaving like assholes will follow them the rest of their lives, and HER LIFE IS RUINED?

jail

Her life is not ruined in the slightest.  LittleTramp is free to go about her life, getting as drunk as she likes, chasing after any high-status males she likes, and securing criminal convictions against men who treat her like the whore she is.

drunk

God help the varsity athletes at whatever college campus she ends up on, and no doubt LittleTramp will get back on her feet after suffering a little humiliation and continue on with her life because SHE’S RUINED.

The young men in this case will never escape the disgustingly unfair consequences of a night of acting like dicks, while the young woman will carry on, unless she feels she isn’t getting quite enough sympathy, of course.  Cue the Prozac and therapy!

prozac

You know what we need?  We need a Drunk Whore Registry. If sex offenders are registered for the protection of all women, then why not register drunk whores for the protection of all men?  It’s true that men could protect themselves by not acting like dicks, but combine small-town celebrity with lots of alcohol and no adult supervision, and you WILL get men acting like assholes and women acting like sluts.

When we only punish one side on that equation, we have a serious cultural problem.  Men are held to account for their irresponsible decisions made while young and stupid and drunk, but women are not? Most crimes acknowledge explicitly that mitigating circumstances create different categories of crime with correspondingly progressive punishments.  Why is rape different?

The punishment these boys face, which will be in effect for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES is way out of proportion to the “crime”.  The definition of rape in Ohio is so broadly defined that the act of being a dickhead is now as serious as the act of fucking a woman forcibly and against her will. And if you don’t think there is a material difference between getting fingered and getting fucked, you are probably a feminist.

Getting drunk and chasing after football stars demonstrates level of stupidity and disrespect for the humanity of the men in question (who are valued only for their status), and that disrespect was returned.  But only the boys are held responsible for that.

shame

I say bullshit.  No one got raped in Steubenville.  Someone got humiliated, and she participated willingly and readily in her own humiliation.  Turning stupid decisions made by high-school students into criminal acts with consequences that will follow only ONE party for their rest of their lives is deeply unfair, and when fingering a slut at an alcohol fuelled party is put in the same category as violent sexual assault, the real victims are drowned in a chorus of pathetic mewlings of women who didn’t get to bag the star.

Who thinks that if the young woman had woken up the next morning next to the football player, his arms wrapped around her in a loving embrace, she would have considered that the price she had to pay to land the big fish?

embrace

Steubenville:  sour fucking grapes.

sour grapes

Not just sour, bitter, too.  But only for the men.

How is that justice? Who is served when those boys are locked up?  Who is protected?  Who wins?  How ironic is it that the adults who were NOT present to lend some sanity to what their own children were up to are now fully involved to make certain only the boys are punished?

People make stupid decisions.  Especially when they are young. They act like idiots. They treat other people with a lack of respect.  They behave shamefully.  It happens. Holding boys, and only boys responsible, moves justice from being blind to being blatantly sexist. When justice can only see one sex as guilty, it’s time to put out her eyes again.

blind

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Lots of love,

JB

231 Responses to “Why don’t we have a Dumb Fucking Whore Registry? Now that would be justice.”

  1. Wondering March 19, 2013 at 05:40 #

    I want to know why the handjob she gave the one boy wasn’t factored into the case. It’s pretty clear to me she was consenting if that’s what she did an hour later when she “woke up”. It was in the tweet collection that they used for evidence. They say two of her girlfriends, including the one she went to the party with, testified that she fought them to leave with the boys, and they haven’t spoken since because the girl is known to lie!

    I knew a girl who “slept” through a number of sexual encounters. I couldn’t figure out if she was just telling me that in case I heard something through the grapevine or what. I finally told a friend of ours about it, and he gave it a whirl one night when she spent the night at his house. Sure enough, she “slept” through the whole event. Laid there like a dead fish and the only time she moved was when she lifted her ass so he could slide her panties off.

    • frugallancaster March 19, 2013 at 21:56 #

      The fact that she gave the guy a handjob is completely irrelevant. That doesn’t mean she consented to be fingered. That’s like saying because a guy fingers a girl, the girl has the right to sodomise him.

    • bumblebeephotography March 20, 2013 at 02:59 #

      Consenting to one single act does not mean consent has been given for everything else.

  2. Earnest John March 19, 2013 at 06:10 #

    Here’s an idea, since you’re out on a mission, why not duke it out with Rollins? http://www.underthegunreview.net/2013/03/18/henry-rollins-comments-on-steubenville-rape-verdict/ And even if you wouldn’t, it’s a good read. I know, you play with what you got, maybe trying to be as provocative as you can will get you where you want to be. Good luck, best wishes.

  3. Mark March 19, 2013 at 08:04 #

    This incident only helps to convince me that the lax attitude taken toward underage drinking is a grave mistake. I know everyone says ‘they’re going to do it anyway,’ but most lief-ruining events that happen to teenagers, like this one, invariably seem to happen while some or all parties are intoxicated. Teenagers are generally stupid, almost by definition. Alcohol is a neurotoxin that makes people stupid. Combine teenagers with a stupidity-inducing neurotoxin and you’re asking for bad things to happen.

    And since boys are actually held accountable for their actions while intoxicated, that means no second chances. One of the many reasons why I don’t drink.

    Almost forgot. Anyone wanna place bets on how long it will take for this event to be made into a fantastically dramatized Law and Order SVU episode?

    • Margo March 19, 2013 at 15:44 #

      I’ve had this discussion too: “where were the adults?” I don’t think that there’s a “lax attitude toward underage drinking.” What it IS is like I said to a friend on Facebook: this was a kid’s party with alcohol, so “where the adults were” was, by design, as far away from the party as the kids could put themselves. Saying that it happens doesn’t mean it’s right or that we condone it (as someone who replied to my comment above seemed to think I was saying). It means that we as adults invent radar systems designed to detect and curtail these activities, and kids (being even more clever than we were at their age) find ways to jam it and fly under it.

      • Stephen Yost March 19, 2013 at 16:21 #

        When I partied as a teenager, we went far into the ravine and city parks where nobody could find us. Not even the police could find us. There weren’t any adults because none were around. I’m happy to say nobody got raped. Heck, I never even saw one fight break out and we all got drunk as hell and (gasp) used lots of drugs.

      • Liz March 19, 2013 at 16:23 #

        Thing is, there’s also an age where one has to take some level of responsiblity and it isn’t 18. There’s a wide range between one and 18. My grandfather was over in the Pacific fighting the Japanese when he was 17. I was home alone for a week while my parents went to Las Vegas when I was 16 and didn’t throw any parties (nor, I suppose it should be said, did I get drunk or pass out anywhere). I went to school and had a job.

    • frugallancaster March 19, 2013 at 21:52 #

      You can’t blame booze for goodness sake. Plenty of teenagers drink, hardly any rape.

    • Kai March 21, 2013 at 18:41 #

      I don’t have any problem with underage drinking.
      But I do think it’s ridiculous that society encourages drinking at all, and getting drunk especially. Why are teens expected to not do what adults do all the time? It’s not like people in their twenties are any less stupid while drunk.

  4. Marisa March 19, 2013 at 08:09 #

    So let me get this straight. If you judgybitch and I’m assuming you’re a guy go to a party get wasted and pass out and you wake up the next morning with your pants around your ankles and you then find out there is pictures of you getting anally fingered you wouldn’t consider it a serious sexual assault? Oh right you would blame yourself for getting wasted. I mean you should have known better right? And the guys who fingered you were just being douche bags and don’t deserve jail time. Is that about right?

    • Hiram J Goldstein II (@HiramJGoldstein) March 19, 2013 at 14:09 #

      I’m a guy. If I went alone (i.e. crashed) to a ballet/figure skating after-party teeming with obviously horny, gay dudes, I wouldn’t get smashing drunk and pass out. You know, because I’m not a moron.

      If one of my moron friends did, I would (a) tell him to press charges, and (b) tell him he’s a fucking idiot for thinking getting falling-down-drunk in a room full of guys who were interested in his butthole was a good idea.

      Getting sexually assaulted doesn’t mean you’re not a fucking idiot.

    • Wilson March 19, 2013 at 14:42 #

      Doing shit to passed out guys is a tradition. Ass fingering would be the least of my worries.

    • judgybtoo May 1, 2013 at 22:27 #

      If the guy was giving blow jobs and hand jobs just minutes before he passed out then no….I don’t think he would have any right to complain.

  5. Alex March 19, 2013 at 09:07 #

    I think it’s insulting to men for anyone to call this just a ‘witch hunt’ of ‘boys being boys’, I know plenty of boys and none of them would EVER think that this kind of behaviour is acceptable. When most boys get drunk they might say some rude things, but no one I know would perpetrate a violent crime, film it, then put it on social media.

    • Liz March 19, 2013 at 10:45 #

      I have sons, and I can’t imagine them doing anything like this. And if they did, I wouldn’t be on national television supporting them and saying they were good boys. My husband and I had a conversation with my oldest last night (didn’t mention this incident, just a generality). Told him that if he ever sees something really bad happening at a party: 1)don’t participate 2)don’t take pictures 3)intervene and try to stop the activity. Irony is, if someone had really confronted the retards when it got out of hand they would have probably stopped (I know for a fact when my husband was a teen he would have said something). And no one would be in jail and no pictures would have been sent out. Instead it sounds as though the kids were all validating it.

  6. Marlo Rocci March 19, 2013 at 12:18 #

    I was recently reading an abstract on PubMed about the toxicology of rape. Of the cases involving intoxication only 2% cases were proven to have involved the notorious series of “date rape” drugs. The vast majority involved “self induced” drugs such as alcohol, cocaine and pot.

    The pattern is clear. Once a woman has taken anything, you can’t trust her to take responsibility for any of her actions. The rape charge you may face will be fueled by drugs she takes herself. Get a drug test kit.

    • noel March 19, 2013 at 15:54 #

      “Of the cases involving intoxication only 2% cases were proven to have involved the notorious series of “date rape” drugs.”

      All that suggests to me is that alcohol is the most commonly used date rape drug.

      Drugs like GHB and ketamine are often called “date rape drugs” without justification.

      • Wilson March 19, 2013 at 21:50 #

        If she administered a “date rape drug” to herself, does that mean she should be charged with attempted self-rape?

    • Alex Little March 19, 2013 at 16:58 #

      “The pattern is clear. Once a woman has taken anything, you can’t trust her to take responsibility for any of her actions.”

      You’re citing on abstract and making an illogical conclusion based on it. First of all, can you cite your source?

      Secondly, can you explain your argument? In cases involving “intoxication” only 2% involved so-called date rape drugs. All that says to me is that the so-called “date rape drugs” are called that because of media hype and not because they’re commonly used for date rape. You make no mention of what drugs were found in the other 98% of cases, nor do you provide any kind of explanation for how this means that “once a woman has taken anything, you can’t trust her to take responsibility for her actions.” There’s a huge leap in reaasoning there which I think you need to explain.

      “The vast majority involved “self induced” drugs such as alcohol, cocaine and pot.”

      You’re assuming that the drugs are “self induced.” What the heck is a “self induced” drug? Ketamine is often called a “date rape drug” but every time I used it, I chose to use it. I know people who chose to take GHB. Just because you can chose to take cocaine doesn’t mean that it is impossible to slip into one’s drink.

      I think you’re citing the paper that I found below and the abstract says that in about 2/3rds of the cases which involved a positive drug test, the drugs were unexpected, meaning that the (alleged) victim did not report voluntarily consuming within the last 72 hours. I suspect some of the drug use was simply underreported. With cannabinoids, I would find it reasonable to believe that in many of those cases, the complainant has simply smoked more than 72 hours prior and they still had cannabinoids present in their system. I doubt marijuana would make a good date rape drug and adding it to someone’s food would still leave a distinct taste. Cocaine made up about 1/3 of the unexpected drugs. Since it wouldn’t make a particularly good date rape drug, it’s possible that some of the positives were due to adulteration. Amphetamines can make people horny, so it’s plausible that it could be used as a date rape drug in the sense it may make one more likely to want sex. The same is true of MDMA in some cases.

      The authors note that the unexpected drugs in combination with unexpected male DNA lended “support for their contention that they had been intentionally drugged and sexually assaulted.”

      The fact that many of the drugs found were what you call “self induced” (a prejudicial and inaccurate term) doesn’t really tell us much. Many drug users don’t know anything about drugs, even drugs they’ve used for years. They don’t know if their drugs are adulterated. Some don’t even know which drugs are stimulants and which are CNS depressants.

      Drug-facilitated sexual assault in Ontario, Canada: toxicological and DNA findings. (2010) Du Mont J, Macdonald S, Rotbard N, Bainbridge D, Asllani E, Smith N, Cohen MM. J Forensic Leg Med. 17: 333 – 338.

      Uring samples were positive fordrugs in about 45% of cases. Alcohol 13%. Alcohol and other drugs 18%. Ketamine 2% and GHB 1%. One complicating factor is that GHB and ketamine are metabolized quite rapidly and so may not be detectable for particularly long periods.

      The abstract implies basically what I said above (that alcohol is the most commonly used date rape drug), “Most unexpected drugs found were not those typically described as ‘date rape drugs’.”

      You probably should have looked at more than one article. How about this:

      Jones AW, Holmgren A, Ahlner J. (2012) Toxicological analysis of blood and urine samples from female victims of alleged sexual assault. Clin Tox (Phila). 50: 555 -561.

      The major illicit drugs found were marihuana and amphetamines. The major prescription drugs found WERE those which would be usedful for daterape: diazepam, alprazolam and zopiclone.

      Surprisingly, a third paper find that the most commonly drugs found in alleged date rape cases were cannabinoids and amphetamine:

      Adamowicz P, Kała M. (2005) Date-rape drugs scene in Poland. Przegl Lek. 62: 572 – 575.

      Based on these three aspects, the conclusion I’m coming to is that people who commit date-rape either don’t know jack shit about these drugs or I don’t know anything about how to commit date rape. I suspect that it’s due to people being stupid about drugs. Even though pharmacologists know that MDMA isn’t an aphrodisiac, some people will believe it could facilitate date-rape because it could make the victim appear to be a willing participant (by increasing their desire and altering their judgement). Amphetamine is notorious for increasing sexual desire. Probably those trying to facilitae date rape with MDMA or amphetamines are trying a more “subtle” approach and trying to avoid knocking the person unconscious. The paper cited below discusses some of these issues.

      Jansen KL, Theron L. (2006) Ecstasy (MDMA), methamphetamine, and date rape (drug-facilitated sexual assault): a consideration of the issues. J Psychoactive Drugs. 38: 1 – 12.

    • alex little March 19, 2013 at 17:18 #

      You need to be less selective in the data you chose to use.

      If you look at the scientific literature, you’ll find that amphetamine is one of the most common drugs found in date-rape cases.

      It is not particularly difficult to find a number of references to amphetamine, cocaine and cannabis in cases of date-rape. While this surprises me, since these drugs are not known to cause unconsciousness or amnesia, an explanation is presented by Jansen et al. (2006).

      Jansen et al. suggests that those trying to use MDMA or amphetamine are not trying to render their victim’s unconscious but are trying to seduce their victims with the aid of a drug they have surreptitiously administered to their victim. With amphetamines, MDMA, cannabis and cocaine, the intent is to alter the victim’s judgement, increase sexual arousal and cause general disinhibition.

      When you try using data published in the scientific literature, it’s a good idea to cite your source. I guess you didn’t do that because it seems clear to me that you were being deliberately misleading. You should also avoid unjustifiable assumptions, such as the assumption that amphetamine use is always self-induced. Whether or not you use data from the scientific literature, you should probably also try to offer a logical argument to support your conclusion(s). Your conclusion about women never taking responsibility for their actions simply because they’ve taken a drug is not supported by the one poorly chosen fact you’ve highlighted. Maybe if you tried offering a sensible argument leading from premises to conclusion then we’d have some idea of how you made such a leap in logic.

      Adamowicz P, Kała M. (2005) Date-rape drugs scene in Poland. Przegl Lek. 62: 572 – 575.

      Du Mont J, Macdonald S, Rotbard N, Bainbridge D, Asllani E, Smith N, Cohen MM. (2010) Drug-facilitated sexual assault in Ontario, Canada: toxicological and DNA findings. J Forensic Leg Med. 17: 333 – 338.

      Jansen KL, Theron L. (2006) Ecstasy (MDMA), methamphetamine, and date rape (drug-facilitated sexual assault): a consideration of the issues. J Psychoactive Drugs. 38: 1 – 12.

      Jones AW, Holmgren A, Ahlner J. (2012) Toxicological analysis of blood and urine samples from female victims of alleged sexual assault. Clin Tox (Phila). 50: 555 -561.

      • This is all ridiculous June 21, 2013 at 20:20 #

        With amphetamines, MDMA, cannabis and cocaine, the intent is to alter the victim’s judgement, increase sexual arousal and cause general disinhibition.
        But none of those things make something a date rape drug. A ‘date rape drug’ means it does one of two functions:

        1) Makes the victim incapable of fighting back, by inducing paralysis, inability to move your arms and legs on command, knocking you unconscious, etc.
        OR
        2) Interferes with your brain’s ability to create new long term memories, meaning that while you get a perfectly good look at your attacker while it’s going on, you are biologically incapable of remembering anything that happened while on it. (I.e. The Hangover – they knew what was going on at the time, but couldn’t remember anything the next morning.)

        • Mark Choi October 2, 2013 at 07:48 #

          What a total load of nonsense. Rape is unwanted sexual intercourse, and any drug that facilitates that is a rape drug. Therefore any drug that alters ones judgement and makes you do something you otherwise wouldn’t, or disables your ability to make that decision yourself, and which you had no hand in administering is a rape drug.

    • Frozen Tempest March 21, 2013 at 00:42 #

      The it behooves males to steer plenty clear of drunk or high chicks. Let the message ring out across the lands that men will no longer be giving any type of attention, positive or negative, to chicks who abuse substances.

      That should serve to subside not only rapes and assaults but accusations of such which might be false and which could harm said males. It would also serve to curb the drinking and drugging of many females who sometimes engage in such behavior in order to garner attention from favored males.

      Win/win!

  7. Margo March 19, 2013 at 14:16 #

    Well. I’m a high school counselor, and I read this last night, and this morning, not half an hour ago, a couple girls came up to me with an ipad and stuck it in my face and asked me if I’d seen this and if so what I thought of it. And after giving them the boilerplate admonition of them showing me a blog with the f-bomb in the title, I told them yeah, I’d seen it, they wanted to know what I thought? OK…
    On the one hand, she (this writer is a she) has at least ONE point: that the kids in question are KIDS and should not be punished too harshly for being kids and making kid mistakes.
    “See?” the one girl said to the other one.
    “BUT…”
    On the other hand, I said, since when was anyone of any age raping anyone just a “kid mistake”? Let alone gleefully degrading this girl (whether she “played along” or “wanted it” or whatever. As someone who was raped at a high school party, trust me: alcohol does funny things to someone who’s never had much of it) and not JUST “gleefully degrading her,” but PUBLICALLY doing it: bragging about it in texts and posting pics and videos of it online, putting it on Twitter, where it was “Watch us show you how trashy this bitch is.”
    “AND…”
    To me the scariest part of this article is that the writer not only has these opinions, which she’s entitled to, but she feels like she’s SO right that she not only has license to disagree, but the right to call these people out, reveal their contact information and location… basically disrespect, humilate, and shame someone she doesn’t like.
    Sound familiar?
    So what do I think of it? Fail. Big, clueless fail.
    “See?” the other girl said back to the first one and then looked at me. “THANK you!”
    And the argument continued as they walked away.

    • Wilson March 19, 2013 at 14:51 #

      You recognize the dangers of alcohol, and your only response to the girls who showed you this post is to ignore it, keep drinking, and party like animals? A “counselor” like you that sets up girls to have bad experiences should be held criminally liable.

    • Margo March 19, 2013 at 15:11 #

      And not to post one more thing, but I really want to thank you for this post. It doesn’t matter whether I or the students I’ve talked to agree or disagree with what you say. It is provoking a lot of discussion and thought and bringing all these things people think and say and feel about something like this out into the open.

    • Michael Rosefield March 19, 2013 at 15:38 #

      Well-said.

    • Kai March 19, 2013 at 17:43 #

      Reasonable disagreement is given plenty platform here.
      Email addresses and location were only given for those who posted threats and insults.
      It’s a pretty simple distinction.

  8. Robert March 19, 2013 at 15:22 #

    Hey guys – JB is NOT saying the guys should get a pass. They acted like total a-holes. She is saying they should be held to the same justice (or lack there-of) as the girl. If she gets a pass because she was young and drunk, how come the boys don’t get a pass because they were young and drunk? And if they are punished despite that, why isn’t she? Are boys/men now considered guilty until proven innocent?

    Another point well taken – all the “adults” were AWOL during the events in question but suddenly appear to deliver their J’accuse after the fact.

    • judgybitch March 19, 2013 at 15:28 #

      Thank you, Robert!

      All this debate about rape/not rape is NOT the point.

      Is this an appropriate punishment? Ruin their lives over something she is excused for?

      • Local Bond March 19, 2013 at 15:36 #

        They ruined their lives over choices they made. Victims of crimes are just that, victims. Getting raped isn’t getting excused.

        • Robert March 19, 2013 at 20:28 #

          First of all, she was not raped. They really need a new word for what happened to her. But I don’t blame her – I blame the adults who let this happen. My god, what did anyone expect would happen? She gets wasted, hits on some teenage football jocks who are also wasted, goes off with them willingly – and alone – and participates in some light sex-play and then passes out. She is lucky that what happened to her wasn’t worse. Yet they are responsible for their behavior and she is not.

          • idahogie March 19, 2013 at 20:52 #

            No, she was raped. That’s why we have laws and lawyers and judges — they decide things like that. And in this case, that’s exactly what happened — she was raped according to the law. If trials were conducted by idiots writing blog posts and even stupider commenters deciding what is and isn’t rape, then you might be right. But you’re not.

            • Robert March 19, 2013 at 21:51 #

              Judges and lawyers can call an apple a turnip as much as they want, but it doesn’t make an apple a turnip. Although many people will start seeing a turnip. If that was rape, what do you call this?
              http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/12/2012122973834570942.html

              • Ray March 20, 2013 at 02:05 #

                She was absolutely raped. I don’t even know how you can argue against that.
                Rape is “any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.”
                Those boys stuck their fingers in her vagina without any consent on her part. That is rape.

                To answer your question about that article you linked? That’s also rape. Obviously. How do you not understand that.
                All rapes do not have the same amount of physical brutality. They all, however, are extremely emotionally scarring.

                And the poor girl in this case will have to deal with this for the rest of her life. Seriously, what is wrong with you people? This girl is not just going to walk away from this with no problems. Being sexually assaulted is seriously traumatic.
                Those boys deserve every second of jail time they get, and then some.
                I don’t care if they were drunk. Do people do stupid things when they’re drunk? Yes. But someone who wouldn’t dream of taking advantage of a girl wouldn’t just do it because they’re drunk. That “impulse” or thought that that’s acceptable would have to be there already.
                And do they deserve to be listed on the Sex Offenders list for the rest of their life? ABSOLUTELY.
                As someone who has knowledge of the police work regarding sex offenders I can tell you that almost all offenders are REPEAT offenders. Meaning someone who has raped will very likely do so again.

                I’m not saying this from a feminist point of view – as I’m sure someone will try and dismiss this post on that basis. I’m saying this as a normal, caring human being who’s sick of this bullshit. My reply would be exactly the same if it had been a male raped by either gender.

                Stop trying to make the rapists the victims here.

                • Robert March 20, 2013 at 15:53 #

                  Proving my point that many people will actually start seeing the apple as a turnip if they are told enough times by people in authority that an apple is a turnip.

                  I am not making the boys out to be victims. They were total a-holes and should have been better than that. The girl should have been taught that she doesn’t get wasted and go off alone with a bunch of boys also drunk. She was let down by her friends and the adults in her life. The boys should have been taught that no matter what went on or what the girl consented to, you keep your f-ing hands off a drunk or passed out girl, except to help her.

                • judgybtoo May 1, 2013 at 22:30 #

                  You fail to address the fact the boys were also terribly drunk and just as unable to make rational decisons. She was talking during the fingering so I’m not sure if in their drunken stupor they thought they were doing anything wrong. If they had not consumed alcohol, this would never have happened.

      • frugallancaster March 19, 2013 at 18:27 #

        Well yes, because she didn’t do anything wrong. The boys aren’t being punished for getting drunk – they are being punished for sexually assaulting someone.

      • Mark Choi March 19, 2013 at 20:15 #

        And here you make perfectly clear that you simply don’t know what you’re talking about, a complete ignorance of the facts that should have led to some reticence on your part. In particular, as this case was heard in juvenile court, their records are sealed, and will be cleared upon reaching 21. Their lives are no more ruined than hers.

        • Kai March 20, 2013 at 01:29 #

          In this day of conviction-by-media, no one accused of a media-reported crime, whether they did it or not, and regardless of what later happens in court will be cleared at 21 or ever.

          • Mark Choi March 20, 2013 at 07:47 #

            Bull. I could just as easily say “In this day of over-saturated media coverage, the entire nation will have moved on by next week. By the time these boys have their next birthday, let alone 21, no one will remember their names. And I’d FTMP be right.
            More importantly, this article is about balance, balance between what happened to the girl vs what happened to the boys, balance between the crime and the punishment. In this case their is perfect balance, because just as memories will fade as to the boy’s identity, so too will it fade as to her. By the end of the summer, she could walk right up to you on a street in Steubenville, even tell you your name, and it probably wouldn’t trigger any response.

            • Kai March 21, 2013 at 18:34 #

              the name ring a bell, maybe not. But when you hire people, do you not google?

    • Kai March 19, 2013 at 17:46 #

      This is not an equal issue though.

      She was young and drunk and passed out. That earns her mockery and some ‘what the hell were you thinking?’ lectures, but she committed no crime.
      Had the boys got drunk and passed out, they would have earned the same. Instead, they were young and drunk and decided to sexually assault another person.
      Both are to be held responsible for their actions, but her actions did not hurt another person, nor violate the criminal code. Theirs did.

      Everyone may be young once, but not everyone gets drunk, and not everyone who is young and gets drunk then finds themself compelled to commit a crime.

      • cyndi March 20, 2013 at 03:38 #

        The most rationale comment on here! A clear difference

      • Arnab Banerji March 20, 2013 at 18:29 #

        I liked this.
        Even I was thinking with a bias towards the males that would make them ok to commit crime because they were drunk. I was wrong.

        She was drunk and was not assaulting anybody.

        She might have had insecurity issues and thus didn’t have friends. But that didn’t make her go drunk and kill those who rejected her friendship.

        Arguments can go on and on if we hypothesize what could have happened, but they didn’t.

    • Hervey Cleckley March 19, 2013 at 18:07 #

      This is not at all uncommon and it shouldn’t be a mystery. Watch _The First 48_ on A&E. When someone is murdered and it’s over drugs, the homicide detectives will approach the victim’s friends and say, “We don’t care if you were selling dope with [the victim]. We just want to catch who did this to your friend.” It doesn’t matter if the friends were selling heroin or whatever the “worst” drug you can think of is. The police are being pragmatic: they ignore the lesser offence in order to solve the murder. If the police didn’t do that then many of those cases wouldn’t get solved because the friends of the victim would not come forward because they’d fear getting arrested. That might just lead to more murders because it would deprive the victim’s friends (and family) the chance of getting justice through the courts, so the friends might take the law in their own hands.

      So, consider this case analagous. Jane Doe won’t be charged because the police are more concerned with prosecuting a serious crime like rape, rather than prosecuting a minor “crime” like underage possession of alcohol. If JD were fearful of being charged with underage possession, then the rape might not get prosecuted. The police have to decide which is more important: charging a 16 year old for underage possession of alcohol or charging two youths for rape. There is no question about which crime is more serious.

      As for the definition of rape, I don’t see why it should not be considered rape if the accused only uses a finger to penetrate the victim’s body. Does it have to be his penis? Wouldn’t that mean that only men could commit rape? A woman with a strap-on technically would not be able to rape another woman, even if she tied that woman up and repeatedly sodomized her with a strap-on dildo. The idea that it’s only rape if a penis is used to penetrate part of the body seems to suggest that whether or not the accused “gets off” is the crucial detail, but I don’t see why that should be the case. If a man sticks his penis, finger or a bottle in a woman’s vagina, without consent, then it’s rape. It’s rape because whether or not the accused actually “gets off” or gets any substantial sexual pleasure out of the experience is totally irrelevant. It is irrelevant because the victim is being sexually violated. Whether it’s a man’s penis being forced in a woman’s mouth or one woman with a bottle shoving it into another woman’s anus is totally irrelevant: the victim is being violated in a sexual manner. Whether you want to call it “rape” or “sexual assault” doesn’t really matter either because both are horrendous crimes.

      All of the focus on JD’s careless actions is the same as blaming the victim. I agree that her behavior can be considered careless and she could have been more cautious, but that is completely irrelevant. Just because she was an easy target due to the fact that she drank to much and didn’t take precautions does not mean that the two guilty parties deserve leniency. Characterizing her as a “drunk whore” is blaming the victim. No matter how you try to construe it, you are trying to partially blame the victim.

      Suppose she was a 16 year old, alcoholic, heroin-addicted prostitute who had sex with multiple partners five times a week (meaning that many might agree that calling her a “drunk whore” has some semblance of truth). Suppose we also knew without a doubt that she threw caution into the wind and despite being a street-wise prostitute who should have known better but left herself vulnerable. Suppose she also had no friends with her to keep an eye on her during a night which she openly said she was going to get “out of control drunk.” Even if we suppose that all that was true, none of that has any relevance with respect to the two guilty parties. They still committed a sexual assault / rape. They treated her like a toy. She did not deserve to be urinated on. Their actions were wrong. Her willful vulnerability does not excuse their actions nor does it make their actions any less wrong.

      “Boys will be boys” is the worst possible attempt at providing an excuse that anyone could give for their actions. It is akin to saying “criminals will be criminals” and expecting people to accept criminal behavior because, after all, they’re criminals. Tautologies do not justify sexual assault. Yes, “boys will be boys” but even boys should be punished for criminal acts.

      I don’t see anything in the general media or blogosphere that is at all indicative of a “war on boys.” Those coming to the defense of the two young men with statements like “boys will be boys” are perpetuating the idea that young men are entitled to treat “drunk whores” as toys.

      • LostSailor March 19, 2013 at 21:33 #

        As for the definition of rape, I don’t see why it should not be considered rape if the accused only uses a finger to penetrate the victim’s body.

        Since the 70s, feminists have gotten the laws changed to broadly extend the legal definition of rape to include acts that were up until then (and still are in the minds of sensible people), assaults that fell short of rape. I doubt they are done with the effort to further expand this definition. The obvious reason is that when most people hear “rape” and “rapist” they firstly (and usually lastly) think of the previous definition: violent penetration with a penis. The lack of proportionality relating the definition and punishment to the crime is a feminist feature, not a bug. It’s a cudgel to be wielded against men. Got a little drunk and had enthusiastic consensual sex with your boyfriend who’s a month younger and then get caught by your parents? It’s rape, and the law will back you up while ignoring your own crime of statutory rape of your boyfriend. See how that works?

        No matter how you try to construe it, you are trying to partially blame the victim.

        And what exactly is wrong with blaming the victim for actions that are blameworthy? Note that this is not blaming her for the rape but for her own poor judgment in putting herself into a dangerous situation. Note also that none of that blame in any way excuses or mitigates the boys’ responsibility or culpability for criminal acts.

        Those coming to the defense of the two young men with statements like “boys will be boys” are perpetuating the idea that young men are entitled to treat “drunk whores” as toys.

        Not in the least. No one is “defending” these boys or their actions and no one is saying that young men are entitled like this. The latter is either a febrile imagination of political spin.

        I think JB is objecting to–as am I–the lack of proportionality in the response to the events of last August. But that said, don’t those boys deserve a defense, at least before they are convicted? Feminist doctrine say that men “rapsists” are to be considered vile, evil, raping scum upon accusation only and, indeed, even if exonerated.

        • Nic Johnson March 20, 2013 at 01:10 #

          Except that they couldn’t have been exonerated. They video taped it and put it on the internet. They very clearly committed rape. Saying that a 5 year sentence is not equivalent to the crime perpetrated is ridiculous. You are defending them by downplaying what they did. They performed a sexual act on someone who did not consent. That, friend, is rape. They should get 10 or 15 years.

          • LostSailor March 20, 2013 at 02:08 #

            Reading comprehension is your friend. The “exonerated” sentence did not refer to the specific crime, but was a reference to feminist attitude toward rape in general. I’m only guilty of not overplaying what those boys did. That’s the point of proportionality. Sorry, man. Fail.

          • Nic Johnson March 20, 2013 at 08:03 #

            I understand what you’re saying, that doesn’t have to be the only use for the word “exonerated”.

            Feminist “doctrine”, as you call it, says nothing of the sort about men (as you implied with cross out), nor is there any real feminist doctrine. The point is that we, as men, can’t truly empathize with the victim on this. We don’t know what it’s like to be a member of a binary gender group oppressed by the other binary gender group for all of history, and what that means to be violated physically in said situation. These boys cannot possibly be exonerated (found innocent, excused, etc.) when they published the evidence themselves. This whole idea makes me nauseated.

            And, generally speaking, it doesn’t matter what a rape victim was doing or how they were acting, it is no less rape. Give ‘em another twenty years, maybe, MAYBE, it would be fair.

            • yoteech2002 March 20, 2013 at 12:44 #

              Thank you, Nick. Not very many men “get it”. If feminism has changed the previous way of thinking legally about rape then masculism is responsible for the centuries of victim – blaming that women have had to endure…so have children of both sexes by the way. Why? Because rape is a crime of power not a crime of sex.

              • Kai March 21, 2013 at 18:39 #

                Feminists have been talking about rape that way for a while, and it had some validity back when ‘rape’ was defined as a violent forcible act of penis-entering-vagina sex.
                If you are going to redefine rape to include lack of consent due to inability rather than a genuine attempt to fight back, and next-day regret, and sexual assaults and all that, the ‘rape is an act of violence and power’ thing disappears.
                A guy who has sex with a drunk girl is in it for the sex.

            • LostSailor March 20, 2013 at 16:20 #

              I understand what you’re saying

              Apparently not, since I never said anything about exonerating the two young men in this case. Yet you continue to whinge on about it.

              And no “real feminist doctrine” that holds men guilty at the mere accusation of rape? Get real. It’s the entire basis for the made-up “fact” that half of all rapes go unreported. See also the SCUM manifesto.

              Men and women are not “binary gender groups,” whatever the fuck that is. Men and women are people, human beings. Well, except mayby to the feminists, and their lapdogs.

              So, Nic, what’s it to be? Initially you said these boys should get 10 or 15 years in prison, now it’s 20. How about castrating them. Or just take ‘em out back and shoot them. Personally I would like to return to the days when we meted out justice by rational though rather than feeeeelings…

      • Bridget March 19, 2013 at 21:53 #

        Very well said, Hervey!

    • Mark Choi March 19, 2013 at 20:12 #

      First, no one said she gets a pass. Where do you see that? Second, how is she not being held to the same “justice”? She is not punishable while the boys are because her behaviour, while possibly stupid and socially questionable, was not a crime. Theirs was. So guess what. They are held criminally liable for their actions, which were criminal, and she is not, because hers, um, weren’t.

  9. aethelstan March 19, 2013 at 17:58 #

    “If sex offenders are registered for the protection of all women, then why not register drunk whores for the protection of all men?”

    Because being a “whore” is not a criminal offence (excluding theocratic black holes, like Saudi Arabia), while sex assault and harassment are. Only rapists would benefit from such a law, and being a man, I find your idea that Steinbenville rapists’ behaviour is “male norm” as deeply insulting.

    • judgybitch March 19, 2013 at 18:01 #

      I didn’t say it was normal. I said it was predictable. Stealing people’s cars isn’t normal for most people, but if you leave the doors open and the keys in the ignition, you ought to be able to predict what might happen.

      I am NOT excusing the boys. I am saying that the girl behaved very poorly too, and the punishment is way out of proportion to the crime.

      • Mark Choi March 19, 2013 at 20:10 #

        You don’t actually know very much about how ANY of the actors in this particular melodrama behaved. You are committing the same sin of assumption that you chastise others for. To start with, you have no basis for claiming you know her motivation for attending the party, just as you have no basis for claiming you know the football players were reacting to her attempts to hitch herself to their “glory”. While I agree that there is fault on all sides, and that the true story is hardly as simplistic as that portrayed in the media, all your comments do is create a third” side that is even more at fault.

      • BrundleKev March 23, 2013 at 15:14 #

        Could you please provide a source to where you found that Ohio considers any penetration as rape? I’m currently fighting with the feminist/social justice crowd on tumblr and forgot look for the article or document that said this. Thank you.

    • Cassandra March 25, 2013 at 11:20 #

      EXACTLY! thank you! the idea that if a woman/girl passes out – well, what’s a guy to do except use her like a toy?? i’ve known complete a-holes that i still wouldn’t accuse of such a mindset

  10. Rmaxd March 19, 2013 at 19:52 #

    Fingering someone isnt rape

    It’s CALLED masturbation …

    REAL RAPE involves assault, precisely because assault is a provable crime, with a REAL injury

    There is NO injury in masturbation

    Liberal priviliged feminist bitches make me sick

    Go back to dildoing lesbo’s you retarded hags & shove your useless womens rights up your man hating asses

    • sarah March 19, 2013 at 20:36 #

      Masturbation is when you do it yourself. When someone sticks their greasy hands in your vagina while you were too drunk to say anything, that’s called rape. And they very well could have injured her, she could say anything.

      • Mark March 20, 2013 at 05:36 #

        And if a woman grabs a man’s penis against his will, is that rape? No, of course not. You have to have a vagina to be a victim, right?

        Now, I get that women supporting one-sided definitions of rape and sexual assault are trying to ‘look out for women.’ But if that’s all it’s about, just looking out for your own group, then how can they honestly expect every man to give a damn. How can you honestly expect you ‘Other’ to give preferential concern to your rights? You can’t declare war on someone and then expect them to build your ramparts for you.

        • Alex March 22, 2013 at 13:59 #

          I’d say that’s sexual assault, yes. Touching or fondling someone else’s genitals without their consent is sexual assault. Period. I don’t care if they’re drunk or not, if it’s a man or a woman, or any of that. It’s sexual assault.

    • startrekrose March 20, 2013 at 01:35 #

      Anything you do sexually to me against my will is rape, period, end of story. No matter how much I have drunk or what drugs are in my system, what I am am wearing, or what I have done in my past life. Period end of story. Men need to learn the my body is not their playtoy to be take out any time they wish., consent is required, and I shall never give it.

  11. sarah March 19, 2013 at 20:33 #

    This doesn’t even make sense and even if it did, how would a ‘drunken whore’ registry even work. ” Oh, she’s been drunk before and her ex called her a whore….better stay away.” Almost anyone can get drunk or say they were drunk, and anyone can be called a whore by anyone. I’m sure you’ve heard people say it to their friend as a joke. Being a registered sex offender only happens after you are convicted of a crime in a court of law.

    Yes she was drunk and in a compromising situation. Yes thy raped her. The got convicted for it. I do think our prison systems are terrible but that issue needs to be sorted out , not ignored until you find someone that you don’t want in jail.

    If you were drunk and someone stole your wallet they would still be a thief and you would have still lost your wallet. Instead of money we;re talking about people, that should be worth so much more.

  12. Soffa Realhz March 19, 2013 at 21:23 #

    Are all the assholes commenting related to Todd Akin? Rape is Rape. Don’t like it, don’t stick your nasty fucking hands in a intoxicated women’s vagina. Fucktards!

    • misskaeoz March 20, 2013 at 02:58 #

      I have to wonder about those who say a girl who made not the wisest of decisions and made herself vulnerable deserves the violations and the humiliations she has suffered. I immediately think that if they think that is reasonable, does that mean they would, or have, done such things too? Frightens me a bit. But also makes me realize what good judgement I have had in my friends. Never at 1 party, 1 outing, or 1 booze fun-filled adventure has anyone who called themselves my friend thought to rape me in any fashion. Not even when we passed out in the same bed. Because friends don’t rape friends. ….at least, mine don’t.

  13. Fuck You March 20, 2013 at 01:01 #

    I would expect a woman who tried to finger an intoxicated, passed out, whore “stud” of a man in the ass would go to jail too. This isn’t about gender, it’s about not violating people’s bodies, even if they are intoxicated.

    • Mark March 20, 2013 at 05:26 #

      If the roles were reversed, the male victim would’ve been laughed out of the police precinct, and would’ve been blamed for drinking too much. Male victims (they are not of course acknowledged as such) of sexual assault perpetrated by women are blamed as a matter of course.

      The double standard is clear as day in the sentencing, so it is about gender, and it is up for debate. Don’t like it? Then take that up with the feminists who first declared that ‘everything is political,’ ‘the gender war is ubiquitous,’ et al.

      If respected feminist universities officials are going to claim that men can gain from the experience of being falsely accused of rape with impunity, then anonymous bloggers have every damned right to question this obvious application of a gender-biased double standard in sexual assault law.

      Seriously, admit it; if it were a passed out guy who was molested by a drunken girl, you wouldn’t give a damn.

      • Monika March 20, 2013 at 10:31 #

        Actually

      • Cassandra March 25, 2013 at 11:07 #

        well, i can’t speak for monika – but i would give a damn.

        just as i give a damn when a boy is raped by his teacher. and you know who argues the most against me on that? men.

        “ha, ha ha . . i wish i had those kinds of teachers when i was a kid . . . ha ha ha”

        not admitting that is as disingenuous on your part as it would be on mine to not admit that women, feminist or no, still fairly universally believe men should pay on a date.

        part of the problem with all of this is the gender assumptions. if a girl molested a passed out guy most people wouldn’t take issue with that because “guys always want sex”

        but the assumption that men always want it and wherever they can get it – is perpetuated as much if not more by other men.

  14. nhnyr88 March 20, 2013 at 02:27 #

    ” voluntarily accompanied two of the biggest football stars to another party, passed out and then got treated like a whore.”

    These are direct words out of this article; not taken out of context. These words describe a rape.

  15. Homeless Ronin March 20, 2013 at 07:09 #

    That’s a lot of intellectual hypocrisy. So if the lesbonazi try to further expanding the concept of rape to enclose also kisses, we will all go to jail for kissing women?
    On the other hand, if they pass a law where I can lower a woman’s pants and fuck her pussy until satisfied, despite her protestations, and this is NOT legally considered rape, are we still going to have all these assholes here defending this stance of “it’s what the Law dictates”?

    Since women won’t be held accountable for their acts if they are smashed, while men will be accountable by both, here is what men should do. If some of the girls get smashed and you are the host of the party, kick them out. If they are the host, leave the party yourself. If you want to drink and have some fun with women, hire some honest sex workers, as they don’t need to drown their scruples in alcohol to behave like sluts (it’s their job, after all) and won’t cry rape rape to escape the ‘cheap whore’ reputation.

  16. Cary Lenehan March 20, 2013 at 11:14 #

    Rule 1 to not being on a sex offenders register and having your life ruined – don’t rape anyone. Not when they are drunk, not when they are saying no, not when they are terrified, not when they are passed out, not even when they are ‘dressed like a tart’ or ‘wanting it’. 100% of responsibility is on men.

    I am a male, I am not on a sex offenders register. Why? Because I don’t do any of the above actions. It is a very simple choice.

    • Kai March 21, 2013 at 18:32 #

      As with women taking precautions, don’t forget that you have lowered your risk, not eliminated it. The next time you have consensual sex, the girl could regret it and declare retroactive rape and bad luck could put you on that list. It’s still worth lowering your risk, just as girls who don’t put themselves in sketchy situations are a at a much lower risk of rape, but you can’t eliminate it any more than a woman can.

      • Local Bond March 22, 2013 at 09:59 #

        You don’t get “on that list” by accusation. You must be tried and convicted. So if sex was consensual, there will be no evidence to convict you. It’s that easy.

  17. Frozen Tempest March 21, 2013 at 00:03 #

    True Story:

    A female client of mine whom I became quit close to opened up to me about her financial difficulties and how in times of real need she turned to “prostitution light” in the form of “event escorting” and “massage”.
    Sometimes her clients were much older men who just wanted to enjoy a nice dinner and evening out with a young woman, sometimes her clients expected “happy endings” to their massages, and on some occasions, if the man didn’t totally revolt her, she would go even further and have sexual intercourse.
    She said to me, “The only time in my life when I actually made a lot of money and had considerable disposable income was during the 6 months I did this. Nobody can tell me how great and noble men are anymore. I see them for what they really are. No more illusions! I see how willing even the most seemingly normal man is to pay for sex and to request certain sexual acts. My romantic delusions and fantasies have been shot to hell!”

    I was thinking, “and what does it say about seemingly ‘normal’ women like yourself who are willing to pimp themselves out!”

    Somehow that went lost on her.

    Ironically enough she still sees herself as a “good catch”.

    You see, her 6 months of ho-ing was just a “temp job” during an otherwise un-employed stint. Now she’s got a normal job and is totally over it. Even though she’s a licensed massage therapist she refuses to work as such in the off event that some guy patronizing a legitimate spa might proposition for happy ending. She wants no more to do with that and is looking for a sincere mate.

    • Bob Wallace March 22, 2013 at 22:59 #

      Years ago I owned a taxi and ended working for an escort service. Many of the men just wanted to talk, watch TV or go on a date. Some were disabled in some way or another and had to pay for a woman since the were undateable. Some of perverts had to pay. What I found overwhelmingly is that I had more respect for the men – and pity for the undateables – than I had had for the whores, who were drug addicts, narcissists and mercenaries.

  18. Frozen Tempest March 21, 2013 at 00:06 #

    In addition to the above we were go

  19. Emma March 23, 2013 at 17:09 #

    Wow, what a long comment section, you really hit a nerve there.

    While I don’t know much about this case, I know one thing – people should be held responsible for everything they do while drunk, as if they were sober. That means if you did something while drunk, not remembering it doesn’t make you less responsible. However, it seems feminists would rather hold the man responsible, but not the woman. If she had sex and didn’t remember it, she was “raped”.

    If we took this logic to its rightful conclusion, all drinking and fucking people you don’t know too well should really be outlawed. It’s too dangerous – it’s like drunk driving! It holds so much potential danger (feeling raped afterwards, and jailtime), that the police better start fining people for it.

    (I know it’s kind of off topic and doesn’t relate to the case. But people were arguing about how responsible drunk people really are, and I say they are).

  20. rivert March 25, 2013 at 10:18 #

    I honestly can’t comment on the case. It seems like a whole bunch of f-d up mess.

    That being said, what I find most unnerving is living in a society that’s constantly spouting this retarded belief that other people, who have no investment in you what-so-ever, should actually give a damn about your well-being. Always pretending like evil doesn’t exist and then having fucking heart-attacks when it rears its head, and going into fucking uproars when people try to tell you how to avoid it.

    It’s fucking scary. I didn’t realize evil people were supposed to be obvious to spot. I kind of thought, I dunno, they looked like everybody else and thus you should WATCH YOUR OWN BACK.

  21. Cassandra March 25, 2013 at 10:55 #

    if you pass out and someone stabs you – it was suicide. seems legit.

    ‘one night of acting badly . .. ‘ bahahahahahahaha – love how you can assume the girl has done this countless times but the boys ain’t never done anything like this before.

    i have compassion for the boys as well – because the adults in their world were more interested in having a football win than treating them like humans and as a result their world view was skewed.

    i feel compassion for them because alcohol makes for bad decisions especially in the adolescent brain. of course it’s interesting that you think alcohol was the main root of their decision making but seeking a powerful male was the basis of hers.

    you left one thing out of your anti-feminist script. one of the boys fathers said he felt bad that he wasn’t around more – if you’re gonna tow the neo-misogynist line you need a paragraph in here about how his mother was probably an alimony/child support whore that pushed him out the kids life and that boys without fathers inherently make bad decisions because mothers can’t be trusted to raise them properly especially is said mother couldn’t keep her man to begin with. gotta hit the whole checklist if you want to make it into the boys’ club.

    cool graphic btw

    • Local Bond March 25, 2013 at 11:54 #

      I have compassion for the boys too. Not because what they did wasn’t rape or reprehensible. But because our laws are designed to punish children as if they were adults.

      When children we don’t know or identify with commit crimes we are happy to lock them up for life or even execute them. When we can identify with them (like the convicted teens in this case) we plead that they are misguided, confused and deserving of a break.

      I am surprised that I haven’t heard many voices querying the legal system with its regular incarceration of children in adult facilities. These boys will go to a juvenile institution (and rightfully) but I still wonder why their names will remain on a sex-offenders list for life.

      • LJBiFed! March 25, 2013 at 17:59 #

        “These boys will go to a juvenile institution (and rightfully) but I still wonder why their names will remain on a sex-offenders list for life.”

        Their names won’t be on a list for life, Local Bond.

  22. Clover March 25, 2013 at 19:40 #

    Long comment thread, didn’t read it all. But I wanted to say, I think we need to look at how we define rape, and why it’s a crime. Firstly, it has to do with general consent, yeah? If someone pushes you against your will, it’s assault, if they do something sexual to you against your will it’s sexual assault. But in the first case, we presume consent. If someone carries you drunk from a party while you’re passed out, you don’t generally sue them for assault and kidnapping, whereas if they touch you up, you can have them convicted as a sex offender. So why?
    Well, sex is supposed to be special. It can be good, and amazing, and emotionally uplifting…but when it’s bad, it can be a whole lot worse than physical assault. That’s two ends of a pretty large spectrum though.
    Lets go back to the case where someone carries you, drunk, from a party. Lets say they too are drunk, and they drop you. You might get some bruises, might even break something if you’re unlucky. Then you might sue. But if you wake up with no memories and no pain, that’s no problem, right? So why should it be different with sexual assault? If I woke up after a party in no pain and no memories, I would have no problem with someone having touched me up – after all, it wouldn’t have harmed me, right?
    So what was different in the case discussed above? The media. The damage wasn’t to the girl (she didn’t contract any infections, nor was she hurt as far as we know), but to her image. She wasn’t harmed by being fingered, but by people knowing she got blind drunk with strange guys who took advantage of her.
    And that’s why I think this case isn’t rape. That’s why I don’t think lots of ‘rapes’ men are convicted for are truly rape, because often (despite the fact that sex is seen as ‘special’ and outside the realm of normal logic) there’s no harm done. And a rape conviction does a hell of a lot more harm to the guy than the sexual assault itself. I’m sure lots of people will disagree, but I don’t think someone’s feelings about their reputation should be put on a par with other people’s entire futures. Rape convictions do more damage than rape. That’s why lots of women don’t report it, because really, most women are more just than the law.

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